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Joe 11/30/2010 4:37:00 PM
This is not Vietnam, where thousands were forced to serve against their will because of the draft.
These people walked into a recruiter's office and volunteered to serve in an organization that purposely sends their people into war zones. They shouldn't have signed up if they didn't want to deploy and serve in a combat zone.
They should have finished their initial enlistment and get out with at least a general/honorable discharge. They can protest the war all they want as a civilian.
The military gave them a way out of a minimum wage job and/or welfare check; they need to fulfill the terms of their enlistment contract or go to jail.
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Matt 05/05/2009 9:48:00 PM
Comments 36 and 37, I whole-heartedly agree.
...But these people SIGNED UP to be in the military. No one forced them. These people are fools. If you don't want to kill innocent people, don't sign up for the military. Right?
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whitehawk 05/05/2009 5:04:00 AM
Don't be so proud of your sensational service US soldiers. this War was a lie, she realized this, you still don't. That is a problem. Killing innocent people is the worst sin against God. Don't slam someone else's decision to desert, she is the brave one. Pride is shameful, especially with a gun in your hand.
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whitehawk 05/05/2009 4:53:00 AM
If anyone knows where she is staying pls inform her to contact me. Harper is an idiot, as Bush was. But the people of Ontario, other provinces also did not send troops to Iraq because they considered it an illegal war, still do. We have, however soldiers in Afghanistan. Two women have been returned from the war theatre in last month from suicide.
I want to help her and many will. Premiere of Ontario Dalton McGuinty will help her.
My parents took in Vietnam deserters in the 60's and 70's, fed them and gave them a room. We have never believed in that war or the Iraq war of today. Actually, most of America's wars are fraudulant according to most Canadians and other countries. There is a discrepency about your 'supposed' power that is bullyish and unnerving to the World. We have always felt it and blogging globally other countries feel the same. I applaud this woman for her brave decision. There is nothing to be proud of killing innocence, people who haven't attacked or hurt you. This war has cost many dearly in blood and money. What a shame
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Rob Barrett 04/20/2009 1:53:00 AM
Doesn't the increased rate in defectors tell you something? Either the young men and women (who are usually recruited out of areas of lower socio-economic status) do not agree with what they are supposed to be fighting for or they have been forced into something they didn't sign on for.
Our country has had many losses, which pales to the sacrifice you country has made, but let's be honest should we ever trade the life of one for foreign policy that is fired by greed.
I truly hope that your new president has the strength to get your young people out of this horrible war. They don't want us there in the first place.
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Jesse 04/05/2009 1:21:00 PM
There are several things that are largely missing from today's American society . Committment ,responsibility and perseverance are but three. We set out making decisions based on emotion rather than reason or logic. We go into things not knowing what we believe because of this . Our faith crumbles in the face of challenge not having any firm foundation. Emotion then builds something that is swept away just as quickly by a countervailing emotion. If we would dare to teach our children how to think instead of what to think we might be able to avoid dishonorable stories such as this simple person's , who never should have joined the Army in the first place. After all . the purpose for any military is to kill people and break things in service of your own country. If you don't know that going in , please do not take oaths made meaningless by emotional fluctuations.And please stop giving the sporters of bald spotted mullets any more reason to live in the past ( her "support" group in Toronto) . I teach US History for a living . The 60's are just that.....history. Let it go.
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Cindy 03/24/2009 3:42:00 AM
BOO HOO. Who twisted your arm to serve? She volunteered for the military and now when things get tough she runs away. Just like they did when they couldn't make it working at Wal-Mart.
I hope you rot in jail. I have a son, son-in-law and nephew in Iraq. I served my time in both conflicts and I didn't run.
GET A LIFE!!!!
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Coboltt 03/20/2009 2:10:00 AM
As a Canadian, and a retired member of the airforce, I'd like to tell the deserters this.....go home. You signed your name on the dotted line, you made an agreement, stick to it. Your job is to defend democracy, not practice it.
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Bryan 03/18/2009 3:53:00 PM
Some people are ment to be mindless drones of political muscle flexing. Those people don't desert. They take their government issued spoon and lap up all the hate their superiors feed them to kill other humans.
True soldiers actually defend the constitution. Not attack families in a foriegn countries and protect some US contractors right to rebuild a country we bombed/destroyed in the first place. Your patriotism should be in your friends and family, not some ambigious term, "America".
They knew what they were doing when they deserted, they will face the penalty. The trouble is that some people remain empathetic to other humans and can't justify their actions by them being an "order."
The war in Iraq should have never had happened. I don't give a care if your son died in Iraq. He didn't die defending my country, he died defending a warhawk political point of view. If you have an issue with that you may have somethings you need to reconsider.
How many more "terrorists" are we creating by raiding these peoples homes, bombing their bridges, and violently continuing with an interventionalist foreign policy trying to defend against terrorism? I'm sure the minority that these people are, are happy to have Americans on their home soil to shoot and kill.
For those enlisted: Keep defending my right to have my opinion. For that I am grateful for. I come from a military family so don't go retard on me. I realize you'd have more to talk about aside from honor and such if the government had issued you an opinion.
/flame on
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john 03/18/2009 7:16:00 AM
I'm disappointed that you idolize people who get our friends and neighbors killed. The plain fact is that these are people who cut and run rather then stand for what's right. If a soldier sees something that is wrong, and wrongs do occur in the military, then they have a legal and moral obligation to report it and correct it. One person ... one single person ... could have prevented the Mai Lai massacre. These deserters are cowards, cowards who enable problems, cowards who, by their refusal to stand for morals encourage immoral behavior. They are, at best, cowards. More likely, they are thieves, who have stolen a college education from the hard working taxpayers while in return giving only a stab in the back to our nations warriors. They are not strong, they are not right, and they should not be viewed as anything but the poisonous cowards they are.
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anthony 03/18/2009 6:42:00 AM
I feel compassion for these people that simply could not take it anymore. not everyone is made for the army........and they found out while serving. I cant have any anger towards them , i feel for them and think that it was a real tough situation for them. not everyone makes that choice .... Freedom of choice?????????
do we punish these soldiers because it effected their minds to be in combat????????
i am not a soldier, i am just a simple civilian.........with an open mind.
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brian 03/18/2009 4:48:00 AM
she signed a contract with the united states government. it's not fair to just renig on that contract. she was paid, trained, and given higher education in return for enlistment. you can't just run away from problems
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jonathon 03/18/2009 2:55:00 AM
As a soldier who just returned from 15 months in Iraq March 2nd I hope they all get to stay there. Free of punishment. This is a 100% Volunteer force. This isn't the draft... Our country is NOT at stake and they have done more than most people for their country. To any civilian that feels like they should be punished... WHY ARE YOU NOT DEPLOYED YOURSELF? Call them cowards but these people have done more than 97% of America. What does that make you?
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jonathon 03/18/2009 2:54:00 AM
As a soldier who just returned from 15 months in Iraq March 2nd I hope they all get to stay there. Free of punishment. This is a 100% Volunteer force. This isn't the draft... Our country is NOT at stake and they have done more than most people for their country. To any civilian that feels like they should be punished... WHY ARE YOU NOT DEPLOYED YOURSELF? Call them cowards but these people have done more than 97% of America. What does that make you?
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Mike 03/18/2009 12:20:00 AM
Tragic. In America, we are now bailing out the incompetent. Hopefully in Canada, they will not bail out the weak. I served six years in the Navy, without giving up on myself or 'needing' the military to lift myself out of a pitiful existence. I joined right out of high school, with a long line of military family members preceding me. I am an American, I lived up to the oath I took, I went on numerous deployments, and now, am working in Baghdad as a civilian contractor. I have honor, my word is my bond.
You, on the other hand, are weak. You are cowardly. A country as great as ours could never have been built with your fearful hands, could never continue to be supported by your limp spine.
You live a failed life, abandoning your comrades and country, and continue to guarantee your stay in the bottom rung of any society you choose to live in. You are dooming your children to a life of ridicule, a life of poverty. I hope the values of selfishness you hold now are not the ones you pass to the anchor children you continue to have. And I truly hope that if you are allowed to stay in Canada, you will not be a burden to them as you have been to us.
Save what you can, return to face your deserved punishment. Prove to yourself, if no one else, that you are not worthless, that you truly are an American.
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Rick 03/18/2009 12:06:00 AM
I love the subtle suggestion that somehow the Canadian Government is an idealogical right-wing conservative group and that it's being mean to these AWOL soldiers by not letting them stay in our Country.
It tugs at the heart strings quite well, but frankly I respect that my government is blindly enforcing the legislation of this country and allowing the judicial system to do its job without interference.
For the few Canadians who read this: if Harper intervened in the courts liberals and dems would cry bloody murder. When he doesn't he's a cold, bush-loving, neo-con.
I find it somewhat offensive that the writer of this "human interest" story would be so audacious to make such accusations against a system and a country they know so very little about.
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Dumbya Delusional War 03/17/2009 11:50:00 PM
What about the soldiers raping young women?
What about the billions of money we can't account for?
What about the civilian death count?
WHO GIVES A SHIT IF SOMEONE WANTED TO COME HOME!!!
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Scott McCambley 03/17/2009 10:33:00 PM
RE. Desertion to Canada
Well, hello uninformed Americans!
With 112 dead and climbing, over 350 seriously wounded in Afghanistan. Canada with a combat casualty rate 3 times higher than either the USA or Britain. Live footage of Cdn War Dead arriving home on Canadian soil broadcast nationally every week. Do you really think the average Canadian wants to hear their country is offering asylum to US deserters?
The reason the Conservatives are in power in Canada is that the majority of Canadians put them there by choice.
Get over it Deserters, not our fault your options are limited with Mexico going to pot.
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james 03/17/2009 9:53:00 PM
I hope that she and her deserter friends do get deported and prosecuted for desertion. I can somewhat understand dodging a draft if the war is unpopular, but still that is just the lesser of the two evils. If you sign up for the military you should expect to be doing things that you don't want to do, and hear and see things you don't want to see. You SIGNED UP.
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James 03/17/2009 9:53:00 PM
I hope that she and her deserter friends do get deported and prosecuted for desertion. I can somewhat understand dodging a draft if the war is unpopular, but still that is just the lesser of the two evils. If you sign up for the military you should expect to be doing things that you don't want to do, and hear and see things you don't want to see. You SIGNED UP.
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michelle 03/17/2009 9:51:00 PM
Interesting story over all, but not without error. Andrew Jackson is not on the $20. For the 23 yo who hasn't seen a democratic president since he was 11, I question the math. I am nitpicking. But I want Press to be responsible for what they report.
Pales in comparison to deserting the military. Cowards. Cry all you want about what you claimed to see in Iraq. You lied when you took your oath, you are probably lying now.
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michelle 03/17/2009 9:51:00 PM
Interesting story over all, but not without error. Andrew Jackson is not on the $20. For the 23 yo who hasn't seen a democratic president since he was 11, I question the math. I am nitpicking. But I want Press to be responsible for what they report.
Pales in comparison to deserting the military. Cowards. Cry all you want about what you claimed to see in Iraq. You lied when you took your oath, you are probably lying now.
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Herbert Hoovah 03/17/2009 9:20:00 PM
Listen... I am sure that millions of us here in America do not mind you being a contentious objector, or that after going into the military you found out that you did not want to serve. The bottom line is that you were told of what signing your name and swearing your allegiance meant.You had opportunity to stop everything and not go through with it. You also could have thought long and hard before committing, but you did not.
You cry that poverty drove you to the only way out of it...it did. It gave you a roof over your head, full medical, a paycheck, and some sort of security, they asked that if needed you had to go....they needed you and you bailed.
I don't agree with the war either, and I probably would have gone to my commander and told him that I wanted out based on my changing views...you may have been court marshaled, and dishonorably discharged and that would be that....but now make no mistake...the US is going to make an example out of you unless you get some major backing down here....good luck to you...
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Willie L. Jernigan 03/17/2009 8:51:00 PM
I am glad I finished the entire eight pages,because the 8th was the page I loved the most. I pray for Rivera family and the rest of men and women who are trying to stay. I am only one man , but as sure as I have faith in a country of forgiving people,I am not alone in saying you all have done nothing wrong. There is nothing wrong in not wanting to be a part of something you don't believe in, and no "orders" in any country should make me take a life. They are not traitors, they are only" human beings " who have the rights of "choice". I am 58 I love my country but I will not go to war with my fellow man.
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JIm Davis 03/17/2009 8:27:00 PM
Oh yeah, who loves ya baby!
RT
www.online-privacy.pro.tc
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Leo Miller 03/17/2009 8:05:00 PM
A fairly good look at some of the personal stories of these idiots. But I'd rather it didn't hint that Canada might let them stay, because even with a change in government that isn't ever going to happen.
How many legitimate refugee claimants are being forced to wait - and wait - while these idiots launch appeal after appeal?
These deserters are not particularly motivated by altruistic anti-war motives, or by a sense that this war is in some way 'unjust'. If they truly thought it was unjust, why are they themselves running away from justice? There are consequences to one's actions, even one's personal moral dilemmas - the brave and ethical thing to do is to accept those consequences.
I might even be able to respect them if they were thusly honest and brave. If they did have a change of heart and legitimately couldn't fight, then they should still have acted with integrity. They should have simply refused - firmly but politely - to wear their uniform or pick up their weapon. They should have said: "Let me face my court martial, let me serve my time in prison, and then kick me out. I apologize for wasting the Military's time and tax-payers dollars. But I can no longer be of service." But, no, instead they try to cover up their moral-cowardliness by telling stories about all the bad, bad men kicking in doors and making little girls cry. They try to mask their shame and stupidity by growing a beard, drinking fair-trade lattes, and hanging out with anti-americans, anarchists, and other associated agitators against reason.
As you can see from the fact that they've got quite a little fan club - we've got our own trash problems, so we don't need any more blowing north.
Cheers,
Leo
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Norman 03/17/2009 7:35:00 PM
This article overlooks the fact that the Americans who sought refuge in Canada 35 years ago were draft resisters who ere fleeing involuntary conscription into the armed forces.The current deserters have no such excuse.They voluntarily joined the armed forces and it didn't take a great deal of smarts or imagination to foresee that they might be expected to participate in a war.It is for this reason that they have far less sympathy here in Canada than their predecessors did.Whether or not they "believe" in the mission couldn't possibly be less important.
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Jeff Osborn 03/17/2009 7:34:00 PM
Every deserter deserves to be shot on site. YOU volunteered. YOU were not forced to join. You made the choice to join the military. Then YOU whine and bitch when given orders. Too damn bad. When you joined you waved your constitutional rights. you are covered by the UCMJ. I would deport you in a second. I would turn you in to the authorities in a heartbeat. I will not lose any sleep at all to give the command to shoot you or even do it myself.
Worthless cowards.
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Pfmohr2 03/17/2009 7:23:00 PM
Disgusting. This isn't Vietnam; there was no draft. This is a VOLUNTEER military, and these cowards had full knowledge of what they could face when they signed up. It looks like Canada will keep sending them back, and I hope they are all prosecuted. Every one of them ran from the responsibility which they CHOSE, and needs to face the consequences for their actions.
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W.L. Jernigan 03/17/2009 5:03:00 PM
I wish it was if she had already did her time in Bagdad and could be done with it, counting her blessings that she made it home to her family safely and "hold". Her mental state in my opinion is punishment enough. Let "GEORGE" go in her place.
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Jo 03/13/2009 7:15:00 PM
Although I have never served in the military and have no personal experience, I still would like to make comment to this story.
First of all, what the heck was she thinking when signing up? I might have missed it in the article, but she should have known what she was getting into before signing up. Private Benjamin (in the movie) was misinformed and was a ditzy, spoiled blonde, AND a fictional character. This is the real world. Second, what did she expect after deserting? You flee to Canada and live off the taxpayers there, while your fellow soldier family has to stay and continue to experience what you could not handle? You deserted THEM. I don't get it. And another thing is that you have deserted, so why not man/woman up, turn yourself in, face the consequences, serve your time; then go back to your family. You already screwed up. Rather than flee, own up to it. You've already shamed your country, your family, your husband and children. Serve your sentence and go home. And, about the little baby - anchor baby? Does that work in Canada like it does in the US? Did you learn that here in Dallas?
I am sorry, but I just cannot have sympathy for you. I think of those you left behind.
Oh, and about the professor lady from Iraq - so Iraq was better BEFORE the invasion? I don't believe it was, certainly not for professors and students, much like in Iran. Sorry, but I just don't feel sorry for her, either, as her people are still there living in that hell while she is in comfortable, though cold, Canada. She deserted her people as well.
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Urban Cowboy 03/13/2009 7:13:00 PM
Dear E. Warron Carmody, In response to your ignorance listed below:
"As for Urban Cowboy, you sound like a weekend warrior POGUE, too scared to use a real name. I guess your infinite wisdom helped you come up with with the label "cowards" all by yourself college boy. You didn't desert, so that makes you better than the deserters in your mind, but I'm sure the public would like to know about all the violent alcohol-related incidents you were more than likely involved in and received UCMJ for. Yeee-hawww. Bring your attitude to a real combat unit at Ft. Bragg, Ft. Benning, Ft. Cambell, Ft. Stewart, Ft. Drum, and so on. We'll give you one hell of a reality check. Awwwww, did you have to leave you're family too, poor baby. You can't even follow instructions, hit ADD COMMENT one time."
First of all I am PROUDLY (since we feel the need to use all caps to get points across) serving in the National Guard and have been since August 2001. Second of all I am 11B in a RSTA unit, formerly in a Sniper section.
Here is where you went wrong, I have never received UCMJ nor have I ever been involved in a "violent alcohol related incident" while being in Military or Civilian attire.
And yes for all the Guard/Reserve soldiers, I would say having a full-time job, being in college full-time, being in the Guard part-time and STILL going overseas is a bit more of a burden that we are willing to take as compared to Active Duty being full-time with only one job. It has taken me 8 years working on a college degree. My choice though and I'm not bitching.
If you had any hint at intelligence you would realize that the Guard/Reserve has been used and deployed more than most Active Duty units. Furthermore, you would realize that we are all in this together so you should SHUT THE HELL UP.
Cody
p.s. Yes I did not desert. I am better.
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biffula 03/13/2009 6:36:00 PM
Oh boo freakin' hoo. Lock these vaginas up and let them do their time. These scumbags should have investigated their decisions better before thinking that going off to war would be a good thing. They knew what they were getting into before they left. I have no sympathy for them. What a joke these losers are.
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Houston Roy 03/13/2009 2:45:00 AM
Poor, wretched losers. They will spend a lifetime on the fringe, thinking everyone is unfair to by not recognizing their great worth. Perhaps Canada will be kind, take them in and allow them to continue to drug, smoke, drink and get fat.
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Tim Covington 03/12/2009 3:09:00 PM
Like others responding to the article on deserters (and the deserters in the article), I volunteered to join the army. I was 18 and knew I might be ordered to kill others and I had signed up for a total of 12 years of obligation (8 years reserves + 4 years of inactive reserve). If you want out of the military, it is easy to get out. Though, it will be reflected any time someone does a check on your service (dishonorable or less than honorable discharge). For some employers, this does matter. In my opinion, the deserters who run off to Canada today are either stupid or publicity whores.
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Paul 03/12/2009 2:10:00 PM
Being a retired Army vet, I feel all deserters should be prosecuted. For whatever reason a person enlists, they know full well they could go to war. They want the benefits but disappear when it's time for them to fulfill their obligation.
However, I do feel they should not be allowed to "draft" people to fight someone else's war or a President's personal war with another country. A draft should only be allowed when the continental United States is being threatened.
The Iraq war was about oil and making Bush and Cheney's friends richer. Iraq was never a threat to the U.S. We have the War Powers Act but Congress and/or the people of the U.S. should be allowed to approve any war.
The people who have never gone to war can so easily send others to fight. Bush was a fighter pilot and never went to war even though he had the opportunity. And Cheney and Rumsfeld wanted it to get richer.
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E. Warren Carmody 03/12/2009 9:08:00 AM
As a veteran of the Iraq war, an 11 series MOS in the Army, and overall standing as a good human being and soldier, I can tell you that desertion is only a natural and minuscule variable that the Armed Forces of the United States deals with. People seem foolishly concerned with desertion, when in all reality, the ground situation in Iraq and Afghanistan does not even compare (remotely) to desertion; completely opposite echelons. Trust me, the people of the United States need to hear about the uneducated, murderous, criminal, and foolish actions and attitudes of gold-toothed thugs, white boy wannabe's, and empty uniforms that are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. These are the troops that deserve ridicule and shame. Their actions, not deserters actions, will have dire consequences for the people of the United States in the future, and these actions already do have an affect on the ground in Iraq and in the minds of the Iraqi people (yes they are people too, most of them normal). Look at divorce rate in this country to get a proper reflection of our country's ideology when it comes to commitment. Cheating on your wife/husband is cool, while deserting the military deserves prison...huh. Instead of dissin' on deserters, go give the people that have never signed up or done a tour a hard time.
For deserters west of the Mississippi River, you're looking at about a week or two at the Army's Regional Correctional Facility at Ft. Sill or Personnel Control Facility at Ft. Sill as well, AFTER being turned over by civilian auhtorities. Wait until you are dropped from your unit's roster, go to the USO at the Lawton, OK airport and turn yourself in to reduce overall time. The United State's military has larger fish to fry; you do not need to flee the county or seek asylum. The military's stance is if you do not want to help your unit, we do not want you. The military will not present it that way, yet it is reality. Do not fall for the gimmicks. People that get prison time for desertion also have other, and more serious UCMJ issues. If you do receive a harsh sentence for desertion alone, contact your congressional reps. These sentences do not fly for desertion alone if the military feels like someone is watching. People with half a brain know there are more serious crimes than desertion.
As for Urban Cowboy, you sound like a weekend warrior POGUE, too scared to use a real name. I guess your infinite wisdom helped you come up with with the label "cowards" all by yourself college boy. You didn't desert, so that makes you better than the deserters in your mind, but I'm sure the public would like to know about all the violent alcohol-related incidents you were more than likely involved in and received UCMJ for. Yeee-hawww. Bring your attitude to a real combat unit at Ft. Bragg, Ft. Benning, Ft. Cambell, Ft. Stewart, Ft. Drum, and so on. We'll give you one hell of a reality check. Awwwww, did you have to leave you're family too, poor baby. You can't even follow instructions, hit ADD COMMENT one time.
Although I do not completely agree with desertion, nor do I think it is the correct action to get a ticket out of the military, at least deserters are strong enough to go after what they want in life, rather than falling for bullshit threats from senior enlisted. THE SENIOR ENLISTED OF THE ARMY, AND INDIVIDUAL UNITS, ACT LIKE THEY ARE DOING HUGE FAVORS FOR LOWER ENLISTED BY "LETTING" THEM BE IN THE ARMY, WHEN IN REALITY IT IS THE OPPOSITE. THE PUBLIC'S EYES NEED TO BE OPENED AND SEE THE INDIVIDUALS THAT ARE ACTUALLY RUNNING THESES MILITARY UNITS (WHAT UP DAWG/CUZ). MOST OF THESE INDIVIDUALS WOULD NOT MAKE IT IN THE REAL WORLD.
YOU ONLY LIVE ONCE.
AND YES THE MILITARY HAS DIRT ON ME, JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER NON-LIVESTOCK SOLDIER.
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Urban Cowboy 03/12/2009 5:22:00 AM
Cowards. I enlisted before 9/11, still knew what I was getting into. Have deployed twice, have been in college and taken out of college for military reasons. Have dealt with leaving parents, wife, family, friends, etc. just like other military personnel. I raised my right hand. Though I may not agree with all the government policies, politics or which war is the right war, I will never leave or forsake my country and duty. She enlisted while the war had been going on for 3 plus years. Damn shameful and selfish act. Now see how her family (including kids) deals with the prison time. Instead of saying their mother served with honor, they will say their mother served a sentence with dishonor. Good luck putting food on the table while in jail. No sympathy will be found from me.
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Red Hot 03/11/2009 11:52:00 PM
I hope they all go to prison for the rest of there life.
What a bunch of cowards, way to hang your fellow soliders out to dry and put more of a burden on them and there families. They ( awol soldiers) signed up for the military now honor your commitment.
