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AA OC chic 06/15/2011 6:24:00 PM
If you want to be really truthful you can add this to the end of the headline ..."and Blacks." -From a proud OC black chic ;)
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Me 06/15/2011 6:22:00 PM
You are a friggin idiot. Your car isn't safe at Mountain View?? Yeah right...now you'r ejust making stuff up. I've also lived in OC all my life and have never been a victim of a crime- petty or otherwise. Did you hear that? NEVER! Stop hating on progress you uppidy ignoramous. Ugh- people like you....
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Richardson beats Oak Cliff in 09/15/2010 12:00:00 AM
Schutze, you ought to try getting out to Richardson sometime. It is far more "diverse" than Oak Cliff, and we don't have a bunch of self-important, sanctimonious white hipster do-gooder trendoids crowing about its "amazing diversity" in print every single fucking week, either.
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Alicia 03/05/2010 4:38:00 PM
I just want the trolly to run down Burlington again so I can ride it to work on Madison every day!
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Teena 03/03/2010 9:28:00 PM
"Cool" has become synomnous with gangsta and killing etc ACCORDING TO THE LEFTWING
of course they wont admit it but look what they say is NOT COOL
WHITE PEOPLE
SUBURBS
MONEY
SOBRIETY
EDUCATION
VOUCHERS
yes, we get your message leftists
keep your gangs and your drugs and your sec8 people ( ahahh, them you want to export, dont seem to cool to me :)
your self hate etc
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Matt 03/03/2010 5:56:00 PM
If sensible, educated people would rather risk living in the Oak Cliff "slum" than breathe the same oxygen as the pretentious north Dallas types, that should tell you something.
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Former OakCliff 03/03/2010 5:58:00 AM
I see the people of Oak Cliff are still in denial. Just what we need, an article trying to paint it positive for some outsider to see, so they can go wandering down there at night and get car jacked or murdered. I'm sorry, but nobody in their right mind would to move into that dump of an area. It was a crime ridden dump when I lived there 10 years ago, and it's still a crime ridden dump now. Stop finding hookers in ditches, get rid of the thugs, and all the other crime and maybe you can clean it up. My car wasn't even safe when I went to Mountain View during the middle of the day. Broad daylight at a school and it was broken into more than once in 2 semesters. Yet I had no incidents at night during the 7 semesters at Brookhaven. Why do people try to pretend that Oak Cliff is some diamond in the rough? Next on the propaganda agenda: Compton isn't so bad, now called family town. Give me a break.
-former Oak Cliff resident, smartly living in North Dallas
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Blu 03/02/2010 8:41:00 PM
I'm not from the Dallas area but just moved to Cedar Hill. When I talked to real estate agents in regards to which area I should look at, every single one of them said "DONT GO TO OAKCLIFF!" I think somewhere along the line OC got a very bad reputation. Dallas natives all talk about it being the "ghetto" or "slum". Apparently there will need to be more than just new construction done to revive OC to the people of Dallas.
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Michael Murray 03/02/2010 5:07:00 AM
Well, it's certainly not rocket science. I lived in a low rent apartment on Cedar Hill avenue just above Davis street when i first moved to Dallas in 1993. I could see the neon from the original Gloria's from my bedroom window. Just a couple of blocks away was Tillman's Corner, just about as eclectic as you could get. Even back then, my future wife (who lived in Lakewood at the time) and I mused about how cool North Oak Cliff could be if somebody had the guts and the time to make it that way. So, like the doofus I am, I bought my dream house......in East Dallas.
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a hall 03/01/2010 9:27:00 PM
My husband I have lived here 20 years, I wouldn't live anywhere else in Dallas. The only thing constant is change; we can either choose to ignore it and hide, or we can work with the developers, the city and neighborhoods to make sure we have a say in it. I am tired (no pun intended) of the Llantas Usadas shops and car lots on Davis; seriously even if I needed a used tire, one shop would be plenty. Move forward people, or get run over.
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Ravyn M. 03/01/2010 7:59:00 PM
I really did enjoy this article. I was born in Oak Cliff, and when it was time for my husband and I to find a house for ourselves before our wedding, we looked only in Oak Cliff. I agree with other comments here about wanting to keep it a secret. It's so beautiful the way it is now... uncrowded streets, smiling neighbors, cultural diversity... I'd absolutely hate to lose that. Fear has kept many people away... some of those who might have been, for lack of a better word, "snooty". In my book, that's a good thing. I have to face that attitude everyday in other parts of the city. It's nice to come home to a place where those manners are, if anything, rare. =)
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J. Erik Jonsson 03/01/2010 7:47:00 PM
Jim, someone needs to tell the story of successes in Oak Cliff, and I'm glad you're on the job. But I would caution you about comparing it to Lower Greenville (or rather Lowest Greenville where the worst problems are).
You can't seriously be suggesting that Lowest Greenville's problems are caused by kids from Highland Park and SMU. I'll wager that DPD's arrest records indicate lots of troublemakers from Garland, Mesquite, Arlington, and the Mid Cities. But wherever they call home, they're not responsible for the City's unwillingness to enforce the existing zoning on Greenville by denying SUPs to the bars that cater to the bad actors.
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eclaire 03/01/2010 5:10:00 PM
My husband and I moved to Kessler Park about eight years ago, from North Dallas actually. A family connection to the neighborhood is what brought us here in the first place. That and also the cost per sq foot, and the pertty streets with older homes, and the close proximity to downtown. We had our two young kids here. We've met great people here. I've shopped here, biked the streets, played in the parks, and of course eaten at most of the notable restaurants in the area. I once had a pedicure at a little beauty shop on Davis. I was hesitant to go in, but it was late and I wanted to get mt toes done before I went on vacation the next day. The owner spoke little english and I dont speak spanish but we laughed at our attempts. She gave me Mexican wine and a great pedicure. I always think about going back there, but I haven't yet. What fun it has been to introduce frinds to this area. People are always so surprised by what they see. It's so nice here, really come see for yourself.
Sadly our house is for sale. Our family is moving up North....... just North of Dallas that is. We have to go for the sake of our kids. We are just not confident in our public schools down here. The private school located just up the street from us is wonderful, but expensive and getting more so every year. So it's unfortunately time for us to make our exit. Oak Cliff will always be special to us. It's the first place our babies called home. I'm sad to leave. I will be watching the progress (not a bad word) and routing for OC.
Someday we will take a Sunday drive with our reluctant snarly kids in tow. They will be teenages by then. We will drive by our little home and be reminded that it was good to us. We will drive down Davis and hear live music and see "cool" people walking about and doing what cool people do. And our ungreatful children will ask from the backseat why we ever had to move away from this place not realizing that the reason we left was actually them.
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James E Baker, AICP 02/28/2010 9:14:00 PM
It is really good to see redevelopment in North Oak Cliff. Dallas is fortunate it can foster such growth. The only issue I have is with the terminology that the writer uses. "New urbanism" is not being applied here. Instead, it is "walkable urbanism" - transit-oriented, walkable places with mixed use development - that is occurring. The proposed trolley is the piece that will really complete that concept and the regional planned development district would encourage a logical, systematic growth.
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Nature Sargent 02/27/2010 7:29:00 PM
I am so excited to read this. As a native of Oak cliff I have long known of the beauty of this part of Dallas. The thought of streetcars and bicycle lanes making it possible for me to park my car in the garage and get to work without having to transfer DART buses makes me sing with joy!! Oh come quickly.
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Chuck Snakard 02/27/2010 6:01:00 PM
Thursday I attended a meeting in N.Oak Cliff regarding redevelopment. This all sounds nice, but we just fought off (I think) a City plan to turn Beckley into an 8-lane freeway and we're still fighting to keep 20-story highrises off the banks of the Trinity. While I respect Rick Garza and I think Brent Jackson and many of the other developers quoted sound like earnest, sensitive guys, as a group, developers are lemmings. Once they realize there's a buck to be made, they'll be stampeding from across the River, hiring Susan Mead to lobby City Hall to get what they want, and doing the development they know and love--and we'll start to look like North Dallas. Or at least Greenville Avenue as bars and restaurants and chains squeeze out individually-owned businesses that actually provide a service to residents. I hate being one of those 50ish types (oops, I'm past even that marker) who worry about where this is going, but I have little faith in the City of Dallas to guide us toward the New Urbanism utopia and I have no faith in developers to get us there. By not imposing stricter development requirements, I fear we're making a Faustian bargain we'll come to regret.
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Bret Williams 02/27/2010 2:23:00 PM
I live on the M streets and unlike some of the residents you mention, I love the bars and restaurants. It's the reason this neighborhood got rebooted from the run down gangland it was becoming. It bugs me that the people who live near the bars didn't seem to know what they were getting into when they moved down here. Hello! It's Lower Greenville! The parking situation isn't that bad, but I can understand not wanting college kids peeing in my yard (and leaving trash) and bums walking down my street (they do), but that's part of living here. I have many friends in the OC and they love it. Yes, there are scary parts such as the stretch of Hampton south of the I-30 bridge but mostly it is a pleasant network of neighborhoods and cultures. The Bishop Arts district is a hidden Dallas gem..."Bolsa" is one of my favorite restaurants! Viva La "OC".
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Sheryl Henderson 02/27/2010 4:13:00 AM
Born 1946 in Oak Cliff,I attended elementary,Jr.High and my luv SOUTH OAK CLIFF!!! Anything that will improve my "hood" as the kids say,I am for!
Oak Cliff is not just part of Dallas,the pride of my heart and I hope to see this carried on by all who reside there.
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Ken 02/26/2010 9:47:00 PM
If you build it they will come. I moved into Uptown 15 years ago before the gentrification, I'm not complaining mind you. I like my neighborhood. However, Cliff Dwellers are none too happy with the well-heeled crowd, their trendy restaurants and bars, traffic congestion and yuppie/guppie lifestyles. They will come whether OC wants it or not.
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Thelisma Partridge 02/26/2010 9:23:00 PM
Jim,
Great article, enjoyed all of it. However, something seems to be missing.
In your article you referenced the Bishop/Davis Plan about to come before the Dallas City Council and not wanting to drag us too far down zoning-talk lane. OK, but after reading comments by the principles who funded the Bishop/Davis land use study (Garza, Spence, Maute, et al) I have to wonder about the part that was either left out or has changed - which would be news to me.
Not wanting to drag you too far down zoning-talk lane, I attended all of the community meetings held at Methodist Hospital over a year ago. At those meetings the land use proposal included 4- and 5- story condos along Bishop and Cedar Hill. There was a lot of opposition from the neighborhood over the height of these proposed condos. There was also a lot of concern over the fact that the entire study had been funded by the very developers who stood to benefit from it. There was NO residential input into the study. In fact the study was not viewed favorably by the two city planning commissioners who were overseeing the area covered by the Bishop/Davis study.
Shortly thereafter the public meetings stopped. Dave Neumann and Delia Jasso announced they were replacing the city planning commissioners, I presume with candidates that were more willing to back the plan (I base this on the celebration I witnessed at Gloria's the night before the announcement was made, who was celebrating and what was said/overheard). Since then the whole Bishop/Davis issue seemed to have gone off the radar.
Your article mentions the concessions made to parking requirements for the rennovation of old buildings. Kudos for that idea, and the results it has achieved. What confuses me though is the part of the article where Rick Garza and David Spence praise the parking concessions and the preservation of older structures, as if that is what their intentions are for the Bishop/Davis plan. The fact is they want the same parking concessions made for their brand-new 5-story condos built where they tore down existing buildings. That part seems to have been left out of the article, if not by you then most likely by those you interviewed. The sins of omission...
So which is it? Has the Davis/Bishop plan changed from building new 5-story condos to revilatizing the existing older structures in north Oak Cliff? Or are we, the residents of north Oak Cliff, about to get blind-sided?
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Carrie Gray 02/26/2010 8:44:00 PM
Oak Cliff is the "HOOD" of neighborhoods. It is a wealthy mixture of every kind of culture and religion you can think of. We either are children of immigrants or immigrants. We work hard to obtain a little of "the American Dream" and educate our children to go for more of that dream. Our children don't know prejudice or racial tensions because we embrace our differences and celebrate all of them. Oak Cliff has always been about family and the community. It has survived through the decades with hard work, determination and love and will continue being a wonderful place to live and learn.
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Robert 02/26/2010 8:16:00 PM
Dear Mr Schutze,
You've got it wrong Sir. Please, don't put your opinion forward as that of the majority of those living in East Dallas. The CDO for Little Forest Hills was defeated over a year ago.
I guess You don't live in East Dallas, otherwise you would know what the majority of folks here have decided. Here in East Dallas we don't want to be condemed to live in the past, in tiny little homes, just because they were built here. We also like the idea of studio/lofts and living areas above retail. I think it is time for you to retire and move somewhere way south of Dallas, maybe out of the state. I'm tired of your opinions and your misrepresentations. Thank You.
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Krys 02/26/2010 5:47:00 PM
I grew up in OC and know the place could use some new development. However, the last thing it needs is giant mainstream corporations sucking the culture out of the city; or new condos/apartments so expensive current residents are forced out. Entrepreneurs should be encouraged to set up locally owned shops and eateries in the neighborhood, something different to set OC apart from the rest of suburban-ized dallas.
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02/26/2010 5:18:00 PM
Jonathan - did you even read the piece? Quit being a hyper-sensitive ass-hat.
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Jonathan 02/26/2010 4:12:00 AM
Jim your article has very prejudice undertones. Would you write this same way about the southern sector? Would you reference the "chicken shacks" like you do the taco joints? Blaming everything on the immigrants won't solve anything. We're all immigrants here in this wonderfully young country of ours. Get over your skin color.
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ericthegardener 02/26/2010 2:41:00 AM
Larry, no one over here misses you or your kind.
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Larry 02/26/2010 2:03:00 AM
Maybe you weren't here in the sixties when Oak Cliff did rule as the alternative way of living, (with Mockingbird Lane as the divisional point, beckoning light)..we were poor white trash just on the other side of Heaven. North Dallas. At that time, no Mexicans were crusin' Jefferson or Hampton or Kiest. Pure as the times were, it was just a neighborhood, no different than Brooklyn, or ANY OTHER SMALL TOWN. The area was pristine. That time will never be recovered...it was what it was. The DEATH of Oak Cliff was the ending of the Bronco Bowl and the incineration of Sivils Drive In..once the little cowgirls on roller skates disappeared..then so did the legacy..The past is dead. So sad that all the fancy words left burning at this resurrection are only that, a fleeting glimpse of a burning corpse..known as Oak Cliff. I lived on 12th, by Kidd Springs, by Lake Cliff in the seventies, Beckley, W. Davis, you name it...Now..you can have it...I dont speak spanish..Larry
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dallaschas 02/26/2010 12:28:00 AM
Jim, you have the difference between Old East Dallas and Old Oak Cliff exactly right. I lived over in east Dallas for a time and was amazed at how everything new was opposed, from DART to an Albertsons.
Now as a Cliff Dweller, I am proud of our attitude to preserve what is historic and valuable and to make room and opportunity for what is new and desired. We have a new Tom Thumb with a Starbucks. We want bike lanes. We want Fort Worth Ave redeveloped and we rezoned it. And Davis easily could become a South Congress Avenue. Remember how that looked 15 years ago? I used to think that east Dallas was the Austin of Dallas, but I am sure now that it is Oak Cliff that most resembles the funkiness and mix of Austin. Come on over.
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NotoriousSwan 02/26/2010 12:15:00 AM
Stevie Ray Vaughn, T-Bone Walker and Eddie Brickell, enough said...
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Dave_from_Acquisitions 02/25/2010 10:10:00 PM
We bought our home in WH almost 3 years ago. We moved from East Dallas, as, the bang-for-the-buck factor of buying a home was a no-brainer. I would agree with Doug: OC has it's own charm, and yes, there is a need for SOME new retail, but it's quiet, and we like it that way. We cheerfully make the trip up to West Plano or down to the CHill if we have a weekend grocery run; we knew that coming into the Cliff, we would have limited choices. But we don't mind it. It's almost like and urban oasis, free from big name retail.
The plan for the Davis Corridor looked(s) promising, and, the razing of the apartments just west of Rosemont was nice. You can see the regentrification happening before your eyes right now, as there's much more development happening on Ft. Worth Ave. The first set of apts at Colorado and Ft. Worth Ave are completely gone, the ones across the street from are boarded up and about to be razed (if they're not gone already), there are brand-spankin'-new apts right next to the Home Depot. Oh yeah, and three new banks within 100 yards of each other.
We just got a new Comerica right across from Methodist, and another Comerica directly across from the Home Depot. I wonder which bank will come set up shop on Davis St. first?
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zoe 02/25/2010 10:03:00 PM
Well that's just great! now we'll have to move again to shake the hipsters off!!! It's not cool anymore!
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AnnaBaby 02/25/2010 8:23:00 PM
Just wanted to state not just North Oak Cliff is a site to see but all of Oak Cliff is nice and fun. Don't really no why people are scared of my city its not like we're like south central. Come and judge for yourself.
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D 02/25/2010 6:32:00 PM
I completely agree with you, Doug. Oak Cliff is the best kept secret and I hope it stays that way.
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Les Hall 02/25/2010 5:45:00 PM
I'm with Doug Kerr - I wish we would just keep everything under the radar and develop and grow quietly. On any summer night in the Bishop Arts District you can spot many visitors from other parts of Dallas. If we had bars and larger music venues could it get out of hand?
Maybe this is the price we pay to get the amenities we would like? Would I rather drive to Central Market on Lovers or have streets clogged with cars?
One thing that gives me hope is my perception of our local developers as truly caring about the neighborhood.
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Chris C 02/25/2010 5:37:00 PM
My wife and I move to north Oak Cliff in 2008 and couldn't be happier. Everytime we return from a city that does it right - whether it be San Diego or Chicago - we feel that sense of doom that Mariana Griggs describes - 'we have to come back to THIS?'. But then there's our little saving grace - Oak Cliff - that makes it ok. We love the diversity and culture because it is the right urban 'feel', but also love it because it makes the the white flight-ers cringe when I tell them I live south of I-30!
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Paul S 02/25/2010 5:11:00 PM
Amy, I normally hate parades but the Mardi Gras parade taught me what its all about, COMMUNITY!
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Chris 02/25/2010 4:35:00 PM
When ever you mention OC to someone who did not grow up here they get a chill down their back. WRONG!!! I grew up in OC, just two blocks from Davis and a few blocks from what is now the heart of the Bishop Arts district. I went to SMU and my parents still live in the same house. I have a son, and oh I WISH i could raise him in the neighborhood my parents still live in! It is GREAT,very family oriented and it is true we welcome any ethnicity and way of life. Unfortunatley, trying to buy even a small run down home in the immediate area is so expensive, but it definitley would be worth it. I believe it's the current residents who make the atmosphere wha it is. And I mean all the resients. Everyone is so excepting of others ethinicities and prefences. May it stay just as "homey" when it expands!!
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Dallas Diner 02/25/2010 4:00:00 PM
I moved to the OC from Old East Dallas two years ago and I've never regretted it. Anyone who wants to see a vibrant downtown should walk down Jefferson on Saturday afternoon. Any developer looking for a big piece of land near downtown has got to have his eye on the Wynnewood Shopping Center. Only one complaint with the article-Wynnewood North is not just rich Anglos and gays. WN (a wonderful place to live) is pretty well balanced among Anglos, Hispanics and Blacks. I haven't seen a neighborhood sexual preference survey.
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Ed in the OC 02/25/2010 2:48:00 PM
Developer Beware: we are smart, organized and connected. If you try and bring some of that knock down historic buildings "ethnically cleanse or mall-ify" the area or take away the grit, in an effort to bring in the "finicky 400" to our par tof the world, we will bankrupt you.
On the other hand, if you come down, take some time to get to know people on a first name basis, understand our needs and truly understand the goal of making NOC the most livable urban community in America then you will be welcomed by all.
Come down, spend some time!
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Roberto "Mr.Rara" Longoria Jr. 02/25/2010 1:41:00 PM
Well I am very pleased that Oak Cliff is changing the way it is and glad to see all genre of people getting along. Everyone is embracing all kinds of different culture in Oak Cliff and it is heart-warming to see, for me at least. There is everything one needs if you are looking for it. It is nice to be able to cruise down th estreets of Jefferson blvd. and Davis st. and smile at all that is changing. Oak Cliff, the next big little city. Thanks.
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Amy Cowan 02/25/2010 6:02:00 AM
We didn't start the Mardi Gras parade just for the blue collar Latinos. We started it to bring the neighborhood out to the streets. Vibrancy, life! Parties! Fun! Families, singles, straight, gay, brown, black, white, yellow- we don't care. Just come celebrate! It just so happens that Oak Cliff's life consists of all types of folks. A mixing bowl, perhaps. And it's awesome. :)
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Doug Kerr 02/25/2010 2:06:00 AM
10 Miles? 3.5 miles from Davis to Downtown. As long time Oak Cliff guy, I appreciate the article but I would ask you respectfuly to keep it quiet. This is a great place to live and raise a family. We dont need the publicity!
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Enrique De La Fuente 02/25/2010 12:47:00 AM
I'll say it again, I can't wait til what is happening on Davis spills over to Jefferson Blvd.
