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Jared 01/27/2011 3:53:00 PM
Patricia, I know this is not the same thing, but at a very dumbed down level it may help you understand. When I was a kid there was an old woman in my neighborhood who fed stray cats because she felt sorry for them. The only outcome of feeding stray cats was to create more stray cats to feel sorry for.
Sometimes in order to help someone you have to stop supporting their negative habits. Kudos to John T. above for recognizing that there are correct ways to help people. By rewarding panhandling, you get more panhandling. For people to get off the streets they need to want to get off the streets. In cases of mental illness, there needs to be a different route, but giving out money is not the solution for anyone.
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Publius 12/15/2010 2:05:00 AM
The author already did an excellent job of stating why the proposed measure won't help decrease the problem so I won't comment any further on those topics. I would like to direct my comments toward the Dallas City Council not for the purpose of throwing fire merely for throwing's sake, but to give criticism that might inspire renewal. I was born in Dallas and I've called different suburbs of it home throughout my 25 years and as a result I own at least enough first hand observations to make the following statements and not question for a second their validity. The Dallas City Council and Mayor's leadership ability has, and remains, bafflingly abysmal for years and it is time to either improve your qualifications for holding office or step down for moral necessity. You squabble like school children. The offices you hold are only stepping stones and titles for you. Get out of the way because a rejuvenation of the entire community is necessary and on the way. You allow businesses to be enticed to neighboring suburbs by trying to do what is best for yourself or who your largest re-election chances come from. Time after time opportunity has passed you by which would have prevented the urban decay, which is the real cancer of this city, from reaching anywhere near its current levels. Racial and economic differences between those who lead has been a source to squabble over instead of realizing that it is a blessing to have so many different perspectives in the same room because it allows for the best overarching policies to do the greatest good. The greatest good. No addition of an adjective in the last statement. Not the greatest good for the Latino, African American, Asian,Caucasian,rich, poor, middle income, or religious population percentages that certain areas have more or less of. All of us live and die in the same ways just as we all benefit from good. No plan is going to help everyone unfortunately, but no plan should just accept that fact and stop there. If a plan does a particular portion of people disservice while doing a great amount of good for a much larger one then work to adjust for that harm as much as possible. People might initially be mad but when you show them that you aren't just abandoning them through consistent follow up steps people begin to trust in their leadership once again. You have no trust from your populous to make such decisions because you have repeatedly done only what is good and accepted collateral damage callously. When the collateral damage is your own citizenry though you can't be so short sited because they aren't going anywhere. Neither does the constant physical reminders of the areas that got screwed. The problems in Oak Cliff don't stem from crime, but the scapegoat was made to be the perceived corruption of the residents so you responded only by "getting tough on crime". Did you find ways to get businesses in the area which provide decent quality, legitimate jobs so people can pay bills, do repairs on their houses, or get enough money to purchase a car so they could have reliable transportation to and from better paying jobs further away? Nope. You just found reasons to throw the people in jail and further burden their incomes with fines that allow no forgiveness. You sowed your own seeds of complete distrust in that community for so long that by the time you tried to other techniques that required participation from the residents it was already too late. Who could expect anything else? Don't say, "people shouldn't be that way in blah blah blah ideal setting", because ideal settings almost always would only exist if angels were the actors in the set. We all bleed when cut and protest in various modes when slighted. Don't expect more of others than what you can give. With that last statement in mind let us not expect more of our leadership than what we are willing to give. It is time to huddle together address the things we CAN change, which will be small individually, and resist pointing out those that can't be changed at the moment or which are too big for a first step. Dallas has no bond between its citizens anymore. We are all divided by lines that we make for ourselves. North, South, East, West, Dallas, Garland, Mesquite, Uptown, Downtown, Deep Ellum, and West End residents. Time to just drop those descriptions. I'm from Dallas. The thing that unites us even though we are many and diverse. Dallas which was founded on the Holy Trinity river. Dallas which has allowed a river that gave it life and bares a religiously significant name, for some and not all, to be abused so much it stinks of nothing less than raw shit. You want Dallas to become more aesthetically pleasing to observers? Do it the right way, as always it will be also the harder way, by repairing your own neighborhoods with your own money. Don't knock down an old building for a new high rise loft with a million dollar price tag. Just put up new walls, roofs, lighting fixtures, and any number of other inexpensive but not flashy fixes. I loved being from Dallas for so much of my short life. I want to feel that again.
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john T 12/14/2010 11:06:00 PM
I was homeless..nothing....I had nothing. The city of Dallas put me in an apt. I progressed well. You have to try hard. I did.
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PATRICK WILLIAMS = STEREOTYPIC 12/14/2010 8:58:00 PM
If piss-and-shit-stinking begging bums are nothing to worry about, you naive libtard "Patrick Williams", then let them move in with you. Move your mom or your granny into those new yuppie apartments near "The Bridge" if a bunch of begging bums really aren't dangerous to be around.
Patrick Williams: You are just another liberal "advocacy journalist" HYPOCRITE, and you deleted my previous posting of this post because it obviously HIT YOU TOO CLOSE TO HOME.
By the way, I am an Atheist. JAIL THE BUMS IF THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES TO CLEAN UP THE STREETS, OR SEND THEM TO PATRICK WILLIAMS' GRANNY'S HOUSE!!!
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Robert Wiggs 12/14/2010 7:51:00 PM
Patrick, You're an idiot.
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Patricia 12/14/2010 6:27:00 PM
First of all I can't believe you would allow the use of the word GD in this column. It is very offensive. Secondly all through my bible it tells me to help the poor not try to harm them. I sometimes wonder how people with this attitude can live with themselves.
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A Christian! 12/14/2010 2:24:00 PM
I do NOT appreciate you taking the Lord's name in vain in a public news article or in general for that matter. What a disgrace you are as a journalist even if you are just repeating what someone said...disgraceful!
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Chris Von Danger 12/14/2010 12:59:00 PM
Heres the breaks when it comes to the bum rush: It should've happened sooner. Since The Bridge went live, we've seen a serious increase of scum and villainy enter this town, as many other local cities in the region have "sent us their problems". I had someone who I know w/ a local non-prof shelter describe the aforementioned facility to me like this: Its like the city jail, except people are free to enter and leave. When you let The City Of Dallas run a facility of this nature, understaffed and w/o accountability, you see an increase in both criminal behavior and vagrancy.
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brenda 12/13/2010 8:11:00 PM
I believe the only solution to the homeless issue anywhere is madatory treatment centers. I'm not saying everybody goes to rehab, but a system could be developed to direct these folks into the best program or facility to help them back on their feet. Whether an individual needs housing, job placement, drug, physical or mental rehab, whatever... and there are fine facilities for all of these here in Dallas and across the country... homeless people should be picked up and pointed in the right direction, whether they like it or not, whether it violates their rights.. to live on the street with no visible means of support, or any other perceived adverse effect on them. Sometimes a person needs to be dragged kicking and screaming into the light, even when they don't know that's what they need.
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Bob 12/13/2010 12:15:00 AM
If all the homeless people were sexy alcoholic 18 year-old girls, we wouldn't have a "homeless problem."
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ATHIEST AGAINST PANHANDLERS 12/12/2010 9:31:00 PM
I'm an atheist and I say GOOD! GET RID OF THE PANHANDLERS. JAIL THEM IF THAT IS WHAT IT TAKES.
Why not let the panhandling druggie drunk piss and shit stinking bums live at your house, Patrick Williams, you naive bleeding-heart libtarded politically-correct pot-head "progressive" "advocacy journalist"?
If the bums are no big deal and nothing to worry about, why don't you move your mom or granny to some of those new yuppie apartments near The Bridge, Patrick, you typical liberal "progressive" hypocrite? I'm sure they are very nice as long as you don't actually go walking around outside the gates and into the "neighborhood".
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Leatherneck 12/12/2010 5:18:00 PM
Panhandlers use the money they get for alcohol and drugs.
Food and Shelter are available at the Bridge or the other 5 shelters within walking distace of Downtown. Panhandlers don't want food and shelter, they want the next drink or joint.
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cheryl 12/12/2010 4:58:00 PM
I never comment yet I found the necessity to sy I was so astounded at lack of concern of use of Gods name in vain in any form in any way about anything thats fowl.I couldt past that point to get to your point whatever u were saying.
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Alicia 12/11/2010 3:41:00 PM
How is putting someone in jail at taxpayer expense covering a fine? Sounds like they then owe the taxpayer twice. Give them a job picking up trash, painting over graffiti, etc - that'd go more towards covering a fine. Oh, how about just paying them min wage to do those things then they'll have some money & won't have to beg.
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SD Fin 12/11/2010 3:38:00 PM
But they'll give & give taxpayers' money to illegals & their anchor babies? While Americans, including many military personnel, lose their homes, jobs, benefits?
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Glenn 12/11/2010 4:46:00 AM
People are so hypocritical!! What happened to kindness?!! I can't believe people! They are what Native Americans called "double tounged." Government agents & officials who could keep to the origial treaties but keep changing thier minds & adding stuff. I'm disgraced and so is God; to whom Christmas is all about! HELPING OTHERS IS WHAT CHRISTMAS IS ALL ABOUT YOU IDIOTS!!! GROW UP!! Seems most people are still kids!
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joe 12/10/2010 11:49:00 PM
I dont think you know all the facts about the homeless. Im sure some are very innocent. Some have fallen on hard times or spent there near entire life being homeless, therefore not knowing any better. The fact is though the more panhandlers you have in an area is directly related to the amount of burglaries and robberies you have. The more homeless beggars, the more burglaries and robberiers. Ask any cop. Thats why when its really cold outside, the homeless are looking for places to stay warm, and the amount of crime drops. This change of the ordinance isn't to change any unpleasent unsightly views. Otherwise we would all be downtown asking the wise old homeless man for advice like you see in the movies. Then the ones who like remaining destitute. Duh, those are the ones who don't stay at the shelters becuase they get kicked out for not following the rules. Surprise surprise! Not say the city council always makes the best decisions. Like building the bridgre to nowhere and some city owned hotel, a costly park, when there is a budget crisis.
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Air Force Brad 12/10/2010 9:24:00 PM
A friend of mine saw someone buy two full bags of McDonald's and give it to two "beggars" (as Patrick deems them). The beggars promptly proceeded to toss the full bags on the ground because it was food instead of money. Now what do you think those beggars would want money for if someone just bought them a meal?
Come on, let's not play naive here. Most homeless people are asking for money to support their alcohol or drug problem. How do you think they ended up on the street in the first place? I'm all for throwing the bums out of Dallas. Who wants to be accosted on a leisurely night out?
And, Patrick, your use of the name Jesus in the same sentence with a word cursing him is lewd and disgusting. Seems to me you're nothing more than a loser who would run over his own grandmother in order to get a piece of crap article in a newspaper. How about you quit your job at the Observer and relieve us all of your ignorance?
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Scott 12/10/2010 7:18:00 PM
Patrick, what percentage of your income do you give to help the homeless? My guess is very close to 0%. Patrick, where is your article detailing a PLAN to help the homeless? My guess is "nowhere". The DO (and Patrick and Jim in particular) make a living being snarky and critical while offering no ideas of their own. It sure would be nice if you guys would use your platform to offer SOLUTIONS instead of (or even in addition to) your criticisms.
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Dan 12/10/2010 5:14:00 PM
So messed up! Any sucker who's got some extra money to give out on the streety should be able to do so any time.
Let's just make sure that the sucker shares some with us too ;)
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HP 12/10/2010 3:43:00 PM
They also need to keep the firemen off the streets with their boots panhandling is the same for the poor or for the Firefighters helping Jerrys Kids. If it is against the law then let it be for everyone not just the poor.
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MARY JANE VEST 12/09/2010 6:01:00 PM
this is another screw the poor attempt. i have never known a city to be so evil to those in need. if you don't want them on the streets, build more shelters and start more job and rehab programs. just saying 'NO" does not fix the problem.
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Cynthia 12/09/2010 5:45:00 PM
This writer could have written this story without "WWJD" and G...Damn". I find it apalling that the Dallas Observer would even publish this. My opinion on the subject matter, putting beggars in jail will never solve this problem....it will be a shower and meal for them and then right back to the streets. It will actually end up costing the state money to house them...why not use that money to build more shelters?
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1st Amendment ? 12/09/2010 4:42:00 PM
It will be tested Dallas will be sued.
My only hope is they wrote the ordnance in a way that keeps us from becoming a laughing stock as it makes its way through the Court system.
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Timothy Covington 12/09/2010 3:12:00 PM
Don't look at it as throwing them in jail. Look at it as giving them a place to live, free food, a chance to to be looked at by a doctor and detox for a few days.
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Ryan K 12/09/2010 10:33:00 AM
God forbid we try and put our best foot forward for a major event that could have a long lasting economic empact on the city. I know you would like to belive that all of these poor souls are just poor and have no other options, but we all know better. I give a buck to about 80% of everyone who asks, which is the price I have to pay just to go to the gas station, or grocery store, or even McDonalds, and no I"m not well off. A good half of the people I encounter though have a BS story/scam that I have heard before, are looking for a fix, are rude, or even crazy. (Don't get me started on the looking for free gas scammers I encounter non stop when getting gas) Now as a long time resident I have learned how to handle these encounters with ease. I however wouldn't wish them on an out of towner for one second, especially if they have never been in that kind of situation. I certainly don't want all of the tourists to go back home and only talk about how many homeless people accosted them non stop while visiting. We have social services designed to help them out and I think they can use them for a few days while this city does it's best to promote itself. The truth is Dallas is extremly generous when it comes to social programs compared to the surrounding communites. I know some of you would like to pretend it isn't so, but it is. Many a person in the suburbs would kill to be eligable for Parklands medical programs for the poor. (And countless illegals) I don't think its to much for this city to just once try and make it's self look good to the outside world. Yes I know some of you might not want the Super Bowl here, but it is coming and we should take advantage of the long lasting impact it could have. If that means we inforce the law, (God Forbid!) then so be it. Just me opinion. BTW, I'm pretty sure JC has my back on this one. :)
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Loki Laufeyson 12/09/2010 8:09:00 AM
I thought it was illegal to jail someone simply because they are too poor to pay a fine.
Tate v. Short, 401 U.S. 395 (1971) wherein, Petitioner, an indigent, was convicted of traffic offenses and fined a total of $425. Though Texas law provides only for fines for such offenses, it requires that persons unable to pay must be incarcerated for sufficient time to satisfy their fines, at the rate of $5 per day, which, in petitioner's case, meant an 85-day term. The state courts denied his petition for habeas corpus.
Held: It is a denial of equal protection to limit punishment to payment of a fine for those who are able to pay it, but to convert the fine to imprisonment for those who are unable to pay it. Williams v. Illinois, 399 U. S. 235. Pp. 401 U. S. 397-401.
Now substitute the words "panhandling" for "traffic offenses", and "$50 credit toward the fine and court costs for no more than every 24 hours" for "$5 per day" in the quote from Tate case, and you'll see that NOTHING has changed. Re-read this quote from the article: "The Texas Code of Criminal Procedure even has guidelines about that. Inmates jailed for being too poor to pay a fine must get at least $50 credit toward the fine and court costs for no more than every 24 hours behind bars. It's possible a panhandler picked up for nonpayment of a fine will do a few days in jail..." Texas still continues its endrun around the SCOTUS. The Feds were very clear about this.
However-- this doesn't hamstring the municipalities when it comes to inflicting consequences on scofflaws. So, why not sentence these indigents to performing XXX hours of community service in order to work off their fines? Then, if the guy doesn't show up, a warrant can then be issued for contempt or "failure to comply with a court order". NOW the guy can be arrested and jailed, and there's no Equal Protection or Equal Rights violation.
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Arnie Robertstad 12/09/2010 3:04:00 AM
How did Jesus get in on this? Somebody (the headline writer?) seems to have an attitude. Fortunately, we don't have to ask a stupid question, What would Jesus Do? We can read the gospels and learn What did Jesus do?
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blest 12/09/2010 12:00:00 AM
how bout begging for cash from charities- everywhere you go-as the cashier is ringing you up- he asks for a dollar to some charity-ive even been to a check cashing place- and the teller yells thru the thick glass- "would you like to donate to !@$#%#$"
as she is counting your cash to you..how can you say no to that-
i donate alot here and there- cmon already- millions of people dontate even more when they are amubushed by a teller/cashier