Concealed Guns on Campus a Fait Accompli?

Happiness is...: Two years ago, when the Texas Legislature took up the important question of whether college students who possess concealed handgun permits should be allowed to carry weapons on campus, Buzz carefully examined the issue for 20 seconds before weighing in with our usual carefully crafted argument. To wit: Increasing the rate of gun possession among confined groups of stressed-out, emotionally immature binge drinkers? What an effing dumb idea.

To which many thoughtful commenters replied: No it's not. You're effing dumb.

Yep, sometimes reading the Observer is like reading The Economist, ain't it?

We mention this in light of an Associated Press report this week that said a big chunk of the Legislature this session is behind bills similar to those that failed in 2009. Governor Rick Perry is game to support the idea, so it's pretty much a fait accompli, the story suggested. Buzz called Brian Malte, director of legislative services for the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence, the anti-gun group in Washington, and asked him flat out: "Ready to give up yet?"

Nope. In fact, Malte was optimistic that the measure's passage is not a done deal, which suggests to Buzz that either he doesn't come to Texas much or he has abundant amounts of the optimism that anyone passionately favoring gun control in this country must possess to get out of bed in the morning. Still, he had his reasons.

"[Similar] legislation has failed 43 times in 23 states since Virginia Tech," Malte says, referring to the 2007 campus mass murder that claimed 32 lives. "Every time somebody said this is a done deal over the last three years, it was defeated."

When push comes to floor vote, even pro-gun legislators tend to get...um...gun shy when actually faced with passing campus concealed-carry laws, Malte says. Media attention helps, he adds. As more parents, students and voters learn about the bills, they get hit with the "Are you kidding me?" syndrome and speak up. "They think it's the craziest thing in the world."

The Brady Center recently brought Colin Goddard, the center's assistant director of federal legislation and a wounded Virginia Tech survivor, to Austin to lobby against the bills. Malte says that's the sort of thing that could sway even Texas legislators to vote against the bills. Of course, since he doesn't live here, he probably doesn't get the frisson of fear that strikes Texans who hear the words "Texas Legislature" and "craziest thing in the world" in the same conversation.

 
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47 comments
rick111
rick111

People are to scared of guns. Plain and simple. They forget that there will always be criminals whether they carry guns or knives or rocks or sticks. They will always try to have the upper hand whenever possible. If you are to pussy to get educated about firearms and carry one, please don't feel you have the right to play my superior and tell me i don't have the right to try to defend myself, because you don't have that right to tell me that.

42mack42
42mack42

While I haven't takIen a position on this issue yet (I can see pros & cons both ways). I was reminded of a "D Magazine" article about Charles Whitman and his day in the tower in Austin.The paragraph that got my attention described college students who went to their dorm rooms to retrieve hunting rifles. Those students among others kept Whitman below the rail only allowing him to fire from drainage ports in the wall obviously saving lives.

Imagine the consequences today if college kids brought hunting rifles as part of the August move in.

My how one day in Austin changed so much about the way we live.

Knobby
Knobby

It isn't just the rare mass shootings which are a problem, it's the weekly armed robberies, armed kidnappings etc

Just a couple examples from the MANY:

U of H (second armed robbery in 2 weeks, and a kidnapping)http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/st...

San Antonio College (monthly on campus armed robberies)http://www.woai.com/news/local...

http://www.woai.com/news/local...

-----------------------

Please Keep colleges safe for robbers and rapists, please continue making licensees store their guns in cars while in class or in the library so there's a better harvest of guns for vehicular burglars than say at Walmart, Shopping Malls, and Church parking lots where those licensees just carry their concealed handguns with them instead of leaving them in cars.

Thank you

rick111
rick111

This is not about "kids" carrying guns in grade school, this is about ADULTS that are trained to carry a gun carrying them at college. The legal CHL age in Texas is 21, not 18. These are not freshmen in college, these are 95% Seniors/Grad students. I bet most of you didn't even consider or even research that did ya.

Norby
Norby

This isn't as dumb as you think it is. First of all, not very many college students have CHLs (concealed handgun licenses). The one's that do however, are likely to be way more responsible than people give them credit for. There's an extensive course you have to go through to get your CHL and you have to pass a background check before you can even buy a handgun. Which means that people who have CHLs have no previous criminal behavior. A 21 year old with no criminal history isn't going to suddenly have that aggressive behavior that you're so scared of. The people with high aggression probably have been in trouble with the law before and it tends to be a habit. The people with this behavior tend to not even make it to college in the first place and are prohibited to purchase a firearm. If you ask someone with a CHL their reasoning for getting their license, I promise you they'll say "To protect myself and my family." I can guarantee you none of them will say, "to hurt people."

Schools are a huge target for psychopaths because they know that no one else is armed and they can pretty much do whatever they intend to do. But if there are even a few students with CHLs and are armed, you bet your ass they'll think twice because they know they'll get shot before anything happens.

And if an "emotionally immature" student wanted to kill someone, they would, and chances are, they won't do it in a public place.

You guys need to think with an open mind.. How many more mass school shootings need to happen before people realize this?

And it's pathetic that we preach to our kids not to stereotype and yet we label college students as "stressed-out, emotionally immature binge drinkers." Extremely hypocritical.

For the record, I'm a 21 year-old handgun owning, college student. I don't drink (i did all of that in high school). Emotionally immature? Maybe when I was 12, but certainly not 21.

Smrter_than_u
Smrter_than_u

This is a borderline retarded idea at it's core, and while you can argue the benefits of such a program, the fact is that college students truly are exactly what the article says - "stressed out, emotionally immature binge drinkers." Whilesome may not exactly be "stressed out", it's the middle 2 adjectives that are key here - "emotionally immature." Like it or not, the fact is that they are still just teens and young adults in a very grown up environment...one that they may not be quite ready for yet. You go to college to learn how to make it in this very complicated, difficult world. To give you the skills you need to hopefully secure a future for yourself. That's pressure enough to send some people to therapy. Add pressure from parents, boy/girlfriends, instructors, and all the insecurities you already have as a young adult and you have a recipe for disaster.Let it be known that I am most certainly NOT pro gun control, rather I'm the opposite....I'm pro Common Sense. This is a stupid idea, and quite frankly I'm embarassed that Texas is even considering such a measure. Taking steps to protect yourself shouldn't mean the need to arm yourself to go to chemistry.

lokiii
lokiii

I'm all for gun rights, but that solution seems like it will create more problems than what it intends to address.

Rocco
Rocco

"stressed-out, emotionally immature binge drinkers" huh seems funny being a collage student myself i dissagrey with this highly. stressed out ok ill give you that college is hard with everything you have to do. But you know whats more stressful? seeing your campus shot up by some psycho and knowing their is nothing you can do about it. Non of my friends or frat brothers are as you call them emotionally immature, cuz if you where you wouldn't make it in collage. And binge drinkers? are you kidding me? a small and i do mean SMALL percent of collage aged people binge drink. i know most of the people in my classes ( criminal justice major) don't. And as i said before im in a frat the only thing they do is presser me to go to law school cuz im the only one not going into a 100k+ job. Your argument is flawed and reasoning is weak. ( side note sorry about any spelling errors stupid netbook key board)

Starvin
Starvin

How many parents would want to send their teenager or young adult to a University which let their sons and daughters carry weapons, concealed or not?. As a parent, I'd say no thanks, and find another, safer place for my son to study. If the place is dangerous enough to make you want to carry a weapon, it's not the best place to focus on academics. When you add in the competitive mix of students, hormones, immaturity, occasional emotional drama with a touch of alcohol and then throw in weapons, it wouldn't take long before there would be a regrettable incident making the school leadership realize they'd made a huge mistake.

Tad Banyon
Tad Banyon

I have a question for Patrick Williams and all his liberal buddies.

Why is not OK to carry a concealed gun to protect yourself against the threat of a psycho hell-bent on a murder spree, but its considered perfectly normal to wash your hands every 10 minutes to protect yourself against the gazillion germs we come in contact with constantly? Why do you consider it paranoid to want to bring a gun to class, but you don't think its over the top to insist on a prostate exam once a week? Do you know how many people choke to death every year in this country? Of course you do, that's why you liquefy your food like any other responsible person. Chewing is for victims, no different than browsing the vegetable aisle at the Tom Thumb without a loaded .45.

Tex
Tex

Concealed carry on campus is about individuals being able to protect themselves, not about being vigilantes. Campus police are there to try and protect the campus as a whole; as we've seen in the past, they can respond to a situation but they can't protect everyone all the time (and the US Supreme Court has actually ruled that police don't have a responsibility to protect any particular individual). CHL holders are not a threat to campus - they can already legally carry on public campuses in Texas (just not in buildings) as well as on campuses in Utah and Colorado, and they're not having drunken shootouts or attacking professors over grades.

There may be some who prefer to abdicate their responsibility for their own safety and instead hope someone else will protect them. If that's your choice, so be it, but don't force that on the rest of us. Many of us are willing to train regularly, submit to thorough criminal history and background investigations, and jump through all the other hoops necessary to attain a CHL so that we can be responsible for our own protection - both off and on campus.

Rick1
Rick1

Only the ignorant blame gun violence on the guns themselves. This will indeed help overall. Criminals will at the very least think twice before they attack someone, and that alone is enough to make it worthwhile and to save more than a few people.

1rpb1
1rpb1

Ray Hunt, the 2nd vice-presi­dent of the Houston Police Officers' Union, the largest police union in the state of Texas, spoke out in favor of legalizing licensed concealed carry (of handguns) on Texas college campuses and dismissed the notion that the presence of armed citizens would somehow cause chaos or confusion during or following a campus shooting. Halso mentioned that the union had been originally fairly anti-CHL, fearing shootings of CHL-holder­s by police amongst other things. Upon seeing that that hadn't occurred at all, they were happy to throw their support behind the concept of CHL in general, and they now specifical­ly support concealed-­carry on campus.

So when the largest group of Police in the State endorses it, as they have had experience with licensees if they pull one over for a burned out brake light ticket or whatever, if THEY endorse it, and they do, it should pass.

If you want to "feel" safe, wear a rabbit's foot. If you want to "be" safe, wear a 45.

It is my contention that on FRIDAY the 13th of April 2007, everyone FELT secure at Virginia Tech .... Monday the 16th was another story.

Obviously “gun free zones” never worked. (Luby’s, U.T.-twice­, hundreds of other school shootings.­)

One must wonder why Nidal Hassan chose the “gun-free” area of Fort Hood instead of the gun range on base to start his escapades.

Most shooting incidents werenot resolved by law enforcemen­tinterventi­on.More than half of theattacks ended before law enforcemen­tresponded to the scene—despite law enforcemen­t’s oftenprompt response. In these cases,faculty or fellow students stoppedthe attacker, or the attacker eitherstopped shooting on his own orcommitted suicide...

First responders are "usually bystanders­" like in TucsonSo in school settings, "first responders­" are usually students, faculty and staff, whether armed, or "unarmed, impotent, outmatched­, and deceased," like several in Virginia.

1rpb1
1rpb1

At San Antonio College 2 men "bathroom buddies" (they have to go potty in groups, there's safety in numbers) were robbed by an armed robber in a bathroom in the middle of Campus, armed assaults occur at least monthly

At University of Houston last week, a girl was assaulted by a man with a knife in a bathroom on campus

These are just 2 recent occurrences picked randomly.

Females leaving class at night are attacked on a regular basis. Right now licensed handgun carriers can already be armed all over campus, except inside the buildings, so they must store guns in cars. Vehicular burglaries on campus are skyrocketing since criminals know they can harvest a better "crop" while class is in session than say at Churches, Walmarts, shopping malls, outdoor music fests with 65,000 people, and everywhere else people just carry their gun secured in the holster concealed inside their pants.

Police would rather stumble upon a car burglar on campus holding my stereo and CDs than one holding my gun.Why would anyone want to make access to guns easier for criminals?

It's more likely that my gun would be stolen from my car than for anyone inside a classroom to reach inside my pants to steal a holstered gun retained by a reinforced belt that they didn't even know was there., and girls don't have to greet men at their own cars who are holding the gun they would have had if they hadn't had to leave it in the car.

You have to be a responsible adult over 21 to get a license, you can't get one if you ever had a felony or misdemeanor as Disorderly conduct (foul language, music too loud ticket, even a citation for smelling bad) You undergo training, local, state, and federal background checks. Any prior alcohol related convictions like DWI, and you aren't getting a license. So, mostly we are talking about allowing Grad Students, Faculty and Staff to be armed, not "kids"

Yoritomo
Yoritomo

If you're afraid of concealed carry license holders in Texas then there is no reason to be afraid. They're probably the most law abiding cross section of Texas citizens. Due to the original fears after the original shall-issue laws passed CHL holders are vigorously tracked as most any infraction can lead to losing their license to carry in Texas.

By comparing that information to information from the general populace it's pretty easy to see that they are far more law abiding that your average citizen, and in a funny twist even more law abiding on average than law enforcement as a group. Perhaps it's the extensive background checks or the fact that it's an opt in scenario to carry a gun legally in Texas. At the end of the day anyone can easily slip a handgun into their waistband and carry illegally but this specific group of adults over the age of 21 have chosen to pay $250+, attend a training course, undergo background checks, complete a range qualification verifying they can safely operate a firearm and hit a target, and then maintain that license. Up until recently you couldn't get the license if you were late on your student loan payments. A variety of infractions will get your license revoked. If you're afraid of these people shooting up a school then you're been watching too much TV. These are some of the most responsible people in society. There is no good reason to deny them right to carry in Texas.

1rpb1
1rpb1

I'm always amused the Brady center pays for Colin Goddard to come here. He's the guy who played possum and listen to Cho reload numerous times and keep shooting people instead of doing anything to stop Cho, like the woman in Tucson rose to the occasion to stop Jared, instead., Colin's "solution": is to continue laying down and getting shot until you are "full of bullets" .. that's what he did, and recommends. Like a kid in a crib he said "If I can't see him, he can't see me" Sort of the ostrich head in the sand tactical defense.

Students who prefer to be able to protect themselves at VT way outnumber Brady Employees who want to keep the same conditions as when Cho ran freely around campus, but they don't get to visit as many schools as the anti-self-protection Brady employees do because of funding.

Wayne Chiang and Ken Stanton who attended Virginia Tech at the time the criminal Cho who disregarded the gun free zone "request" are active in the VIRGINIA TECH STUDENTS FOR CONCEALED CAMPUS CARRY, along with many who lost friends at VT

You should visit their facebook page where ABC news videos are posted at http://www.facebook.com/group....

Here's Ken http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

Here's an ABC news video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...

On FRIDAY THE 13th of APRIL 2007, everyone FELT safe at Virginia Tech in a "gun-free zone"However, on Monday April 16th,.... it was a different story.

May I remind you that "the system" which failed .... is where Virginia Tech proclaimed a "gun free zone"

However "the system" where colleges currently ALLOW responsible adults to be armed on campus has had "NO failures"

cristobal
cristobal

and how many times were you robbed last week? last year? last decade? We definately dont need to live in an everyone has a gun society. this isnt the 1880's wild west anymore cowboy

Lee
Lee

Just because you're 21 doesn't mean you ACT like an adult. Especially on a college campus. Especially where there is not only stress and exhaustion to perform academically, but there is lots and lots of alcohol consumed. A gun at a frat party would be so much fun, right?

DallasTeacher
DallasTeacher

Um, obviously you have not been to a community college campus as many freshman are over (well over) 21 and many are returning veterans from Iraq and Afghanistan. I've also had ex gang members in my class and those with criminal records who've spent time in jail. As a college instructor in Dallas, I have no desire to be in a classroom of students wondering who is carrying and who isn't, who will pull the trigger and who won't. And though the maturity level is slightly higher, I deal with verbal altercations in classrooms and a weapon at hand only makes them that much more heated. ALL (and I polled them) of my college students DO NOT want weapons on campus. Many of my students experience violent crime in their neighborhood and see college as a safe haven. Idiots on message boards and apparently legislators who don't have to face an armed classroom are the only ones who see the beauty of guns on campus.

Liberalsdontuselogic
Liberalsdontuselogic

Hooray for more randomly chosen gun free zones where mass murderers can go and kill people without fear of immediate consequence. College campuses are even better than the mall because usually security isn't even armed. The VT shooter had almost an hour to chain doors shut and go about his business of killing people, many of whom had concealed carry permits but left their guns off campus because that was the law. Key words being law abiding.

Pib14
Pib14

No one is talking about the 18 year old freshman carrying a weapon on campus. The people this will affect are the same people that already carry virtually everywhere else in their daily lives. Gun-free zones should be called target-rich zones because that's exactly what they are. For the record, I am a 28 year-old college student. Should I still be considered an emotionally immature person. I have a wife and two children. The minimum age for a CHL is 21 for a reason: so that immature people don't have concealable weapons. The minimum age to purchase a handgun is also 21. So if a student, under the age of 21 has a handgun, they are already breaking the law. Schools are not magical places where once you enter the campus you are safe. Do you really need examples of this idea? Finally, CHL holders are not amateur SWAT members. They are not trained to crawl through ventilation ducts to stop a madman. They are trained to protect themselves in a life or death situation. If that situation happens to be a gunman in their classroom then it is what it is. They are not going to run around campus looking for the bad guy. One final thought, if you currently put a lot of stock in what Colin Goddard is preaching, search his name on YouTube and watch his debate with a member of Stundents for Concealed Carry on Campus. Their is your gun control hero at his finest

Matt R
Matt R

I would attempt to explain how hypocritical it is of you to type out all of those paragraphs and then preach about pro common sense. But I don't think this box is big enough for that, so Ill keep it short.

1)Try actually finding out who they are allowing to carry. What they have to do to get the license. Maybe even some statistics on the crimes they commit or the numbers of them in areas. I'm not going to do your homework for you, but your logic is fairly flawed.

2)College is just like everything else in life, a test. It just there to weed out those who cannot complete the tasks. It happens in high school and the real world just as often. Its irresponsible to say college is much worse than any of the others, to many variables. They are legally considered adults. If you have an issue with that, we have a whole different issue.

3)Just FYI the reason all the people who are licensed to carry support this bill is simple. They have experience and understanding of what it actually means and who will actually be armed. They understand how it works everywhere else in the country as well. The people who have never shot a gun are completely against it. This is because they are ignorant and unexperienced with the actual meaning behind the bill. You can tell when they start talking about fresh man waving guns around.

And by the way, I am 23 years old, licensed to carry and attending college. I find it "borderline" hilarious that someone of your mental capacity has decided he can label me and all my classmates as "emotionally-immature". But I'm not going to come after you over it, don't worry :)

rick111
rick111

College is meant to educate the young adults, not teach them how to deal with life. Teaching them about "life" is the parents job. And yes, whether you like it or not they are considered by law adults and have all the rights attached to that title. This is not about "kids" carrying guns in grade school, this is about ADULTS that are trained to carry a gun carrying them at college. The legal CHL age in Texas is 21, not 18. These are not freshmen in college, these are 90% Seniors/Grad students.

More_Intelligent
More_Intelligent

I can't find one person who I know who feels college was a greater stress than the corporate world. The penalty for failure after college, with family, and other responsibilities makes it more stressful. So I argue your point.

And as for where you need a form of protection, that can be anywhere including a campus. Please enlighten me what powers to be will stop someone with intent to cause anyone harm will stop them at a campus, bar, church, etc. Where you could become a victim has no borders or property lines.

Don't forget either that the age in many states to purchase and own a handgun is 21. That means if they could legally do it, they are all seniors about to graduate and work in the office cubicle right next to you.

1rpb1
1rpb1

It has created no problems at the Universities which allow responsible adults to be armed.

The only "problems" have been at the "gun free zone" schools.

TimCov
TimCov

I can think of at least 6 parents would prefer it if their children could legally protect themselves on a college campus. But, they raised their children to be adults who are very responsible around firearms.

ZeroTol4u
ZeroTol4u

I would gladly send my child to a school where they have all the options to defend themselves in a worst case scenario.

Rocco
Rocco

the world its self is dangerous enough for people to want to carry weapons? you wouldn't drive with out insurance right?

Loki Laufeyson
Loki Laufeyson

I presume that by "Churches", you mean the chicken joint. Any concealed-carry permit holder would know that carrying a gun is forbidden in a house of worship.

Knobby
Knobby

the 1880's wild west, when everyone wore guns was so peaceful and gun violence so extremely rare that a snot-nosed William Bonner got famous, nowadays with all the gangstah killin's of unarmed citizens, they can't even put them all on the news so they don't get famous .... that's what you prefer? It was wild because there were no roads, more dangerous animals etc. but fewer gunfights than now, so they made the "news".

Knobby
Knobby

Not in the last week, but I had a knife pulled on me at San Jacinto College Parking lot, then was robbed in 2 stores, both of which they locked us in store rooms, one where they had us face down on the floor, execution style like they did to the 4 girls in the Austin Yogurt shop.

Criminals rarely call ahead for reservations to RSVP and let you know when they are coming..... So I can't tell you about next week yet.

1rpb1
1rpb1

@cristobal "and how many times were you robbed last week? last year? last decade? We definitely don't need to live in an everyone has a gun society. this isn't the 1880's wild west anymore cowboy "

Ahhh the infrequency of an event argument proving that since your house didn't catch on fire recently you don't "need" a fire extinguisher.

Ok I'll play.

I was robbed, in hostage situations by two guys holding revolvers in an electronics store in 1974, and again by 5 armed men with 2 shotguns and 3 pistols in a hardware store in 1975. We were told to lay on the floor in back storage rooms both times, just like the 4 teen girls who were executed in the Yogurt shop in Austin. I have been attacked by dogs before and seen rattlesnakes before too, but there's no reason to draw on any snake that isn't trying to bite..

But, you make a great point, I've never had a fire in the house, so I guess I'll remove my smoke alarm.

Since you bring up the 1880s when more people wore guns openly, apparently you are aware that that was a much safer time and the West wasn't that "wild" but only the outlaws really made the news you recall.... much like the mass shooter outlaws make the news in the "gun-free zones" much more than the legally armed people who cause nothing newsworthy when we attend concerts with 65,000 other people around, stand behind you in line at the bank, sit behind you in church, and don't even shoot you in the grocery store because you have 16 items in the 12 items or less lane... the criminal element makes the news, not the average law-abiding person (Almost a half-million responsible, trained, law-abiding licensees in Texas, plus those carrying guns under permits issued by other States which are recognized by Texas.)

(cristobal, I fixed your punctuation and spelling in the portion I quoted ... definitely don't and isn't )

Someothername
Someothername

That's why the local, State and Federal background checks eliminate any person with a track record of even playing their music too loud, using foul language, any alcohol offenses etc.

Honestly when I was in college before in 1981, I hadn't had alcohol since 1973, so it was pretty well out of my system.

I never attended a frat party, but the 5 honor societies I belonged to did have gatherings, but I don't recall alcohol at them ... perhaps you hung out with a less responsible crowd more interested in parties than being a responsible citizen.

Skinks-rule
Skinks-rule

Loki, you need to read the statutes. Carrying in a place of worship is not illegal UNLESS it is posted 30.06.

46.035 (b)(6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other establishedplace of religious worship

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actorwas not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

1rpb1
1rpb1

Most Pastors, Deacons and CHLs in most churches I've visited from Houston, Abilene, Austin, San Antonio, Lubbock and others all across Texas are armed. But it's a weird denomination that starts with a B and ends in aptist, but I won't say which one. (smile)

See here for a few others (Other Denominations) carrying in Church since Texas legalized it after the mass shooting at Wedgewood church in Fort Worth in 1999 http://www.texaschlforum.com/v...

1rpb1
1rpb1

Any Texas Concealed Handgun Licensee knows they can carry a concealed handgun in church.

Texas legalized Church carry long ago.

My Pastor all deacons and most CHLs carry to church, one CHL is a retired Police Officer, he site on one pew over from me, his wife, also a CHL is armed too.

Try to keep current on your laws. CHLs do. It's Section 46.035 Penal Code. ... look it up.... don't stop when you "think" you reach the end ... keep reading. If you can't find it ... look in that Section and find the letter (i)

You see in 1999 there was a mass church shooting at Wedgwood Baptist Church in Fort Worth, Texas, Texas legalized church carry, and there's been no mass church shootings since.

1rpb1
1rpb1

I'm retired from working as a Legal Assistant for 25 years, was accepted to 3 law schools and deciding where I want to go. :) I've already drafted Documents for both State and Federal Courts up to the Supreme Court level.

Not really bragging, but I do know that area of law (smile) That particular section is commonly overlooked, even by "new" CHLs who stop reading too soon, and "older" ones who had a 1995 license and didn't keep up to date since the law was changed after the 1999 shooting at Wedgwood.

I have many Pastors and Deacons in my family for the last hundred years, at least 6 Pastors currently in Dallas, and cities I said in other posts. Deacons i others.

Actually it was 2 Church Deacons I'm NOT related to who convinced me to get my license.

If you are a CHL, you can see TexasCHLforum, lots of Pastors of various faiths there carry and are members of that forum. here's a link http://www.texaschlforum.com/v...

Chris
Chris

Wait...I stand corrected. 1rpb1 seems to be right. I am a criminal justice major and I have PDF's of the penal code saved on my HD from last fall, but for some reason chapter 46 is missing that part and the section immediately following it. I don't know why, because I got it from the same place that I am looking at now.

I guess I'll be carrying to church again this Sunday.

1rpb1
1rpb1

I'm right, Loki. stopped reading at the letter (b) before reaching the letter ( i ) which states that b(6) does not apply ...

==> (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), ****(b)(6)****, and (c) do not apply if the actorwas not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

See, b(6) does not apply if the church chooses to not post a 30.06 sign, and I know of none who choose to be as vulnerable as Wedgewood was.you have to keep current, the amendments made after the mass shooting at Wedgwood church are below the letter (b)

You stopped reading at B

keep going ... look for ( i ) (copied from the link you provided at DPS, which is same as actual law on link I provided)

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes) and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(f) In this section:

(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

Chris
Chris

Loki...That section of the Penal code was last updated September 2009. So you are right.

1rpb1
1rpb1

but you stopped before reaching the letter i which states that b(6) does not apply ...

you have to keep current, the amendments made after the mass shooting at Wedgwood church are below that.

You stopped reading at B

keep going ... look for ( i ) (copied from the link you provided at DPS, which is same as actual law on link I provided)

(c) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, at any meeting of a governmental entity.

(d) A license holder commits an offense if, while intoxicated, the license holder carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed.

(e) A license holder who is licensed as a security officer under the Private Investigators and Private Security Agencies Act (Article 4413(29bb), Vernon's Texas Civil Statutes) and employed as a security officer commits an offense if, while in the course and scope of the security officer's employment, the security officer violates a provision of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(f) In this section:

(1) "Amusement park" means a permanent indoor or outdoor facility or park where amusement rides are available for use by the public that is located in a county with a population of more than one million, encompasses at least 75 acres in surface area, is enclosed with access only through controlled entries, is open for operation more than 120 days in each calendar year, and has security guards on the premises at all times. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(2) "License holder" means a person licensed to carry a handgun under Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code.

(3) "Premises" means a building or a portion of a building. The term does not include any public or private driveway, street, sidewalk or walkway, parking lot, parking garage, or other parking area.

(g) An offense under Subsection (a), (b), (c), (d), or (e) is a Class A misdemeanor, unless the offense is committed under Subsection (b)(1) or (b)(3), in which event the offense is a felony of the third degree.

(h) It is a defense to prosecution under Subsection (a) that the actor, at the time of the commission of the offense, displayed the handgun under circumstances in which the actor would have been justified in the use of deadly force under Chapter 9.

(i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), (b)(6), and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06

Notice the reference to b(6) churches ==> (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), ****(b)(6)****, and (c) do not apply if the actorwas not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

See, b(6) does not apply if the church chooses to not post a 30.06 sign, and I know of none who choose to be as vulnerable as Wedgewood was..

1rpb1
1rpb1

Again ... you stopped reading a bit too soon:

THIS is the current published law straight from the statutes.legis.state.txhttp://www.statutes.legis.stat...

(It's on the cite you linked to also ... if you keep going)

==> (i) Subsections (b)(4), (b)(5), ****(b)(6)****, and (c) do not apply if the actor was not given effective notice under Section 30.06.

See, b(6) does not apply if the church chooses to not post a 30.06 sign, and I know of none who choose to be as vulnerable as Wedgewood was.

Loki Laufeyson
Loki Laufeyson

Actually-- that's straight from the DPS site, not 2001-2002, but most recent

Loki Laufeyson
Loki Laufeyson

Check 46.035 (b) (6) in the 2001-2002 edition again.

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/a...

(a) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder carries a handgun on or about the license holder's person under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, and intentionally fails to conceal the handgun.

(b) A license holder commits an offense if the license holder intentionally, knowingly, or recklessly carries a handgun under the authority of Subchapter H, Chapter 411, Government Code, regardless of whether the handgun is concealed, on or about the license holder's person:

(1) on the premises of a business that has a permit or license issued under Chapter 25, 28, 32, 69, or 74, Alcoholic Beverage Code, if the business derives 51 percent or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption, as determined by the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission under Section 104.06, Alcoholic Beverage Code;

(2) on the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting event or interscholastic event is taking place, unless the license holder is a participant in the event and a handgun is used in the event;

(3) on the premises of a correctional facility;

(4) on the premises of a hospital licensed under Chapter 241, Health and Safety Code, or on the premises of a nursing home licensed under Chapter 242, Health and Safety Code, unless the license holder has written authorization of the hospital or nursing home administration, as appropriate;

(5) in an amusement park; or

===> (6) on the premises of a church, synagogue, or other established place of religious worship. <===

 
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