A Pro-Guns-On-Campus Buzz! (Someone Else Wrote It)

Sanders Kaufman

This bill not only will not reduce crime, the math says that it is absolutely certain to increase it. The only real question is who the first person to be killed (accidentally or on purpose) will be.

What this bill WILL do is create a new market for gun-runners who already sell enough weapons each year to arm every single voter - about 80M of us.

The real questions here are ones like:1. WHICH student will have to die a violent death at school to generate those profits?2. How many students will die - and will any be carrying a baby at the time?3. Will the shooting be accidental or on purpose?4. Will drugs or alcohol be involved in the attack? (A statistical near-certainty).5. Did a cop search the shooter, see the gun, and let them go - prior to the attack?6. Did the shooter come from a family where gun-violence was a topic of comedy, and in which killing things for fun was considered acceptable behavior?

Jeff

Ok, Sanders, show us the "math" that shows an increase in crime.

The bill won't change any laws pertaining to buying or owning firearms, so where is the new market?

Answers:1. None, gun owners already (I know this is shocking) OWN GUNS, so there will be no proliferation of firearms beyond what already exists.2. Now students carry babies all over campus???; No more will die than already die due to on-campus shoot-outs, which is somewhere around zero on average.3. You're more likely to fall to your death or drown than you are to be accidentally killed by a firearm. CDC shows us that in the National Vital Statistics report every single year.4. Why don't you look up the actual stats and find that CHL holders are 13 times less likely to commit a crime than the average citizen and get back to us on the "drug" question. (as reported by the Texas DPS)5. No, because (as already stated) CHL holders aren't the issue. the VT shooter wasn't a CHL.6. Even if he was (and we've already established that it's not a CHL holder), would the implementation of this law have ANY effect on that? No. You can't (and never will) determine with certainty the effects of childhood experiences on future outcomes.

Quit living in your fantasy-land of fear mongering, and join the rest of the world. You could start with just a little bit of education.

Matts1017

I too (with two o's) support the right to own firearms for any competent citizen that chooses to own one. However, to a greater extent, I support the right for a college students to pursue their studies in the safest environment possible. The fact that multiple, untrained (no, a two day class on how to operate a weapon does not make you a certified crime fighter) individuals will be carrying fire arms only makes potential threats less discernible to law enforcement. Police must not only identify the gunman, but now they must find the CORRECT gunman. Guns are safe and appropriate in the correct forum, however concealed on your person inside a university is not that forum.

inthon

" individuals will be carrying fire arms only makes potential threats less discernible to law enforcement. Police must not only identify the gunman, but now they must find the CORRECT gunman. "

I find this argument so obviously flawed; but I guess people just don't stop to think about it for any length of time. Simply put, the vast majority of 'gun fights' last on for several seconds. They are over LONG before the police ever arrive at the scene. Now, perhaps, the bad guy wins, and our CHL holder is dead or injured. That is a possible outcome. But the likelihood of the responding police encountering a CHL holder with gun still in hand is practically nil.

Matthew Reavis

Not to mention it doesn't happen in other public places so once again please explain to us why we need to worry about this on college campuses? Oh and it doesn't happen on college campuses that allow carry already either. Everyones entitled to an opinion. But understand people, this is seriously and highly debated concept. And the anti side just does not have any statistics or historical logic to back up all your fears. The only thing you can say is all these horrible things that might happen. Then when we go and look at a pre-existing example environment to test your theory. None of it is happening. So you need new argument points or you need to just understand your fears are irrational.

wantingbalance

Interesting that someone would think there is a difference between Junior Colleges and any other college. Could it be that the larger the university the more anti-gun it is prone to be?

Rick34

People are to scared of firearms to let this happen unfortunately. And they wont budge on their ignorant belief long enough to let someone else decide for themselves. They have to push their views on others because they believe in their delusional self centered controlling mind that they are exactly and perfectly right on the subject and the other person is to ignorant to decide for themselves whats right or wrong. They wont educate themselves otherwise either because that would show a fault in their belief. Ignorance is bliss, and everyone is forced to come along for the ride with them whether they like it or not...

Kurt Mueller

25 colleges (at over 70 campuses) allow carry of firearms. Here is a list: http://www.armedcampuses.org/

Joeblo

Why do you have to carry a gun on campus? if you need to carry a gun just to get to class, then maybe you should think of transfering to another campus. You want to carry a gun when it counts, why not come visit my neighborhood after dark. then again why would you want to unless your looking to get shot. If i were to rob you, trust me you would't see me coming in time for you to take out your subcompact 9mm. You just loos it in the robbery. Don't carry weapons guys. leave that shit at home. you'll just get yourself killed.

Matthew Reavis

You obviously don't have any experience or self confidence with carrying a weapon. I think you will find out real life is a lot different than the movies. However you answer you own question. The people that always carry weapons, even at school if possible. Those people understand the fact that the element of surprise is a large advantage. They don't know if and when they will ever need a gun. But you can't use a gun you don't have. You make an assumption that a CHL holder would even pull his gun on a mugger. Most I know would let them take their wallet and leave. Now if you try to take that same persons life, of course they will pull a gun on you. And it's a good thing they have one, win or not it helps them fight for their life now. You are entitled to your opinion and encouraged not to carry if its uncomfortable for you. However if you had the mental capacity to understand how quickly your opinion would change when your sitting in your desk waiting for a gunman to make it to your room; you might also be able to make the intellectual leap that just because you don't carry a gun does not mean no one else should be allowed too.

Mike Leefw

I don't want to spend the rest of the weekend arguing this, but outside of Utah, the list gets pretty thin. Most of the Colorado campuses are junior colleges. Michigan says it allows guns, but not in campus buildings.I still think the Marksmen are inflating their numbers.

Matthew Reavis

You asked where, and someone did your homework for you. That should be enough. It isn't an inflated number because they specifically said "A NUMBER OF". You need to learn to read what things actually say instead of adding assumptions into them. And learn to do a little research as well. That website is the 3rd link in a google search.

skeptic

Ok, Colorado State -- that's one. http://www.thedenverchannel.co...

Any others? It still sounds like the Marksmen are inflating when they say "a number of college campuses nationwide."

Jason Lee Van Dyke

Colorado State University is one. I believe Michigan State University may be another, but there are conflicting reports on this. Blue Ridge Community College has allowed concealed carry for some time. All public campuses in Utah must, by statute, allow permit holders to carry.

skeptic

A number of college campuses nationwide already allow permit holders to carry on campus.

Name two, since you're implying that it's more than one. Or is the number zero?

TimCov

Thank you for this. It really surprises me the amount of hysteria around this legislation. It seems that those opposed to this legislation believe that by crossing the invisible barrier that marks the grounds of a college campus law abiding and responsible adults will transform into irresponsible nutcases. As it is now, the only people with guns on a college campus are a very small number of police officers and criminals. This will at least allow those who have been certified as good guys by the state to have the means to defend themselves when attacked.