What we have now is some prosecutor who is dumber than a box of dirt and willing to go to take any moral detour to avoid owning up to his mistake. Prosecutors will kill people to avoid admitting a mistake.
By Jim Schutze
By Rachel Watts
By Lauren Drewes Daniels
By Anna Merlan
By Lee Escobedo
By Eric Nicholson
Flanary is adamant that the case has been handled in just that way.
"The way that the criminal justice system is supposed to work and was envisioned by our founding fathers is: First you prove the crime, then you get the punishment," he says. "That's clearly how it's supposed to work. But now, in Justin's case, [it's] 'Let's do the punishment first and then we'll see if we can prove the crime later.' The damage has been done. And I suspect they know the damage has been done. I suspect that maybe one of the reasons they're holding on so hard is because they fear a lawsuit."
Flanary says that, as the father of two kids in elementary school, he understands why Austin police wanted to follow up on the tip from Canada. But, he says, police questioning should have revealed a somewhat dorky kid who wrote something dumb and offensive, not a kid bent on mass murder.
"If they're spending their time chasing around people like Justin Carter, I hope they're not missing the real dangers to society, the real school shooters," Flanary says. "There's only a finite number of police, and if they're chasing around guys who are being mean on Facebook, where are the ones fighting crime?"
What we have now is some prosecutor who is dumber than a box of dirt and willing to go to take any moral detour to avoid owning up to his mistake. Prosecutors will kill people to avoid admitting a mistake.
This isn't just the local police this is the NSA and the architecture of oppression that is being built and rammed down the throats of the American people. We are currently living in a Stasi like tyranny and the worst and most visible cases of this going on are happening right now in the state of Texas.
the government is using stories like this to take away our freedoms... and everyone is supporting it, purchasing stock in it, and raising a family in it. pretty soon theyre gonna take up a third mortgage on bullshit.
and theyll get taxed too.
When we see news of school shootings we all say, "Why did no one step in and do something about this clearly unhinged person before they went off the deep end?".Now though, we're seeing a person who has made threats of violence and he also has several of the markers of past school shooters: He's clearly depressed, possibly bipolar, he's been bullied, he's an outcast, he's made threats before and had a restraining order taken out on him, he has suicidal ideations and he fantasises about being a hero and being loved.
You know something? I have been thinking about making this comment for many years, yet now I have decided now is the best time ever to have my say:
I have long realized that I, Gordon Hilgers, indeed could have a happy life, a prosperous life, a nice wife, plenty of happy children...
...if I could only get the HP/UP chicken-head girlie-boy's auxiliary Adolph Hitler plastic Jesus manufacturing prostitution machine off my behind.
Actually, there is enough blood and bone marrow--ripe for the taking!--right inside Parkland Hospital if those goobermenches wanna try this trick again.
HULLABALOOYA over genes.
I hope Dallas--HP/UP slaves for Confederate Jebus--is unhappy for many years into the future.
Thanks a lot, Dallas white coons! "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!"
This is about the stupidest thing I've heard. We have now officially gone off the deep end in overreacting to what people rant on the internet. We need a serious attitude adjustment with regard to separating words from actions. This is not screaming "Fire" in a crowded theater or actually threatening to do bodily harm. This is howling at the moon and damning all the things that frustrate you. If you have not done that at some point in your life, you are officially dead.
This act breaches the point of having "Thought Police" and criminalizing fantasy and free speech and goes way past "1984" and "Minority Report". Let this kid out. We have done him a grave injustice and any Public Prosecutor who does anything but release him without prejudice is abusing their position and should be removed from office. Or alternatively. maybe blown up and fed to wolves...
Let's see what reaction that gets. Awooooooooo!
Stupid people in positions of authority are becoming way too common. Let's try a little common sense for a change.
Watch and learn: This kid has pissed off some people, and they are gunning for him.
TERRORISTIC THREAT. (a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to;
Define Intent: the thing that you plan to do or achieve : an aim or purpose.
There was no intent, therefore no crime. This is clearly a 1st amendment violation. Anything else is arguable. This case lacks in evidence and lack in intent. It is futile to try to prove anything else or that there was intent to hurt anyone. So let the kid go, and let Ronald Miller from Celina go as well.
The only evidence in this case is a facebook message and nothing else.
I learned a long time ago that jokes, particularly the ones of particularly poor taste, do not translate well when typed out. Sounds like this kid is paying the ultimate price for having a fucked up sense of humor. If anything, this kid is only guilty of not understanding his audience.
POST THE NAMES OF EVERY INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBLE FOR THE INCARCERATION OF THIS KID!
JUDGES. LAWYERS. COPS. ALL OF THEM
What an absolute idiot. There's an entire generation that has no idea what it means to edit themselves or keep their stupid mouths shut.
He most def has mental issues. Does he deserve to stay in jail? No. He will be a richer idiot after this. As for that idiot in CA, I say worry about CA!
Reading Texas penal code 22.7, it's obvious that in order to qualify for anything, Justin's threat should have been specific, he had to intend to cause panic, fear, evacuation etc. of that specific school. The small article "a" he used in his sentence, such as in "a school" ruins all that completely. Without naming the specific target, it can't be terrorist threat. The conclusion that "a school" must be the school he lives closest to, should be laughed out in any sane court.
But even if he named _the_ specific school, which he did not, he had to make that threat known to the people related to that school, in order to cause the actions specified in the law. He did not.
Does he have a criminal record or a violent history? No he doesn't. Maybe he was feeling depressed at the time. He is a victim here and the people responsible for his hardship will pay. Karma will eat your souls. Buddha would be on his side at this time. Free Mr. Carter or else you will pay. Karma is coming for everyone involved.
I hope the system gets sued out of this one. Poor guy, this is way to harse if you ask me. That is the craziest thing I have read about in a while. I guess there is no such thing as freedom of speech.
Every such case should list the contact info for all of those involved in the decision process so they begin to feel some heat politically.
He is a poor nobody working at a drapery store. If his name was Suckerberg or Bieber or Lohan he could say and do anything and never be touched.
This is how our corrupt system of injustice now works, where the serfs have become fodder for prosecutors and private prisons while the elites do what they want, steal trillions and laugh all the way to the bank.
we have 5% of the worlds population and 23.4% of the worlds prison system population..is this any surprise..go down to the courthouse and observe a day of court. this shit happens 24/7
A sexual assault happened? This level of negligence on the part of Texas authorities escalates the matter into another plane entirely. They now should face charges of crimes against humanity, since sexual assault is a form of torture.
What is the point of making an example of one kid? I have read a thousand comments worse than the ones he mentioned, and none of which I believe have any sincerity behind them. Why waste so much time and resources on one dumb kid? Give him a fine if you want to punish him. Scare him shitless. Deny him from internet access from anywhere he lives. I don't know, but jail time?
This is wrong. He will go in a scared kid, and come out someone else. Over nothing. Shit like this is what disgusts me about the 'justice' system.
Without the Facebook thread, how can they possibly validate the authenticity of the photo? C'mon now.. With 10 minutes and a basic shot of a Facebook page, it would be very easy to alter a photo to put words in someone's mouth.
Welcome to TexASS, the most backwards state of the union.
Looks like Texas Cops and the Kangaroo Courts there have WAY too much spare time on their hands.
What has the land become where "freedom of speech" was part of its constitution?
People who use speech are more threatening than thoses who wear arms. Good night America!
Whether you think the case is an example of prosecutorial overreach or due diligence, the portrait of an isolated youth with a backward sensibility invites comparison to the profile of recent school shooters. Whether or not he deserves to be, the inward white male teenager is our 21st century bogeyman.
People should learn to talk and message with respect and clarity. Even if i am the judge after reading those messages i will not look for any contextual analysis. I will put him in jail.
@nonojoeyno The government is not taking away your freedoms. What the government is doing is protecting itself from whack jobs that might repeat the types of activity we're seeing today - extreme violence in public places. This young man unfortunately decided to use free speech in a manner akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater. In Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969) SCOTUS overturned a the 1917 Schenck case that allowed a man to shout "fire" in a crowded theater. Opining harm to school children without other corroborating intent creates the case which will now ebb its way through the court. The question is whether Brandenburg holds in the instant case. Were the young man's First Amendment Rights usurped by the states reasonable attempts to protect the lives of the innocent? When I was a child you could say what you wished to a child and anything else was considered simply bad manners or something to be settled between parent and child or parent and parent. I am personally aware of a case where a young man called a girl a "hure" - he had no idea what a whore was albeit his middle school age. The girls had been egging he and his friends on - they had said far worse to them - yet the young man ended up with a black mark on his otherwise pristine record. This eighteen year old faces far more serious consequences largely because someone used the law - and convinced local authorities to do the same - to get back at him. He is not innocent in this venture. He said angry, unintended things that could be perceived as "terroristic" in nature. I loath the modern term terrorism because I think the use of the term is dangerous and imprecise. Social media allow expression of free speech in a manner different then the Founders could have envisioned. The immediacy coupled with bad manners allows people to say and do things that are extremely unhealthy for our society.
@jaded.maggi The comments you've made suggest that you are personally involved with this story. Do you know this kid personally? "He's clearly depressed, possibly bipolar, he's been bullied, he's an outcast, he's made threats before and had a restraining order taken out on him, he has suicidal ideations and he fantasises about being a hero and being loved." Those are a great deal of assertions without any proof what so ever. This article stated nothing about any of that with the exception of having a restraining order two years prior, and it does not state what the order was for. This kid broke no laws. He did not display any actions that would be considered out of the ordinary for any teenager. His statement was meant to provoke an shock and awe reaction as indicated by the verbiage used. I am a psychologist with a several degrees from a Major D-I University and sir you have no idea what you are talking about.
I am not particularly angry at the dim-bulb, limp-wristed fools for trying that little rabbit trick.
All that wasted time and talent. For what? I cannot help but continue to ask:
For what? So the white coons of Highland Park can get "their negro" back?
That's a laugh. My family and many Black citizens across the South practically invented the Civil Rights movement.
Why'd you do it? Fix this. Now.
@quadibloc1 You've never been in jail, have you. 17 guys in a cell meant for 10. Guards come around three times a day, when meals are delivered. Assaults, both sexual and simply violent, are very common. Nobody cares.
@rockyboyy said: "I have read a thousand comments worse than the ones he mentioned"
No doubt, for anyone even cursory familiar with inet forum culture, the sarcastic tone of the comment in question is 101% obvious. Problem is, the people who charged the kid, don't belong to that group. Plus, I suspect, English is not their native language, so they don't see much difference between "yeah, sure, I will go and shoot a school" and "tomorrow I will shoot the school on my street".
@richardLB according to the article, he confessed that he posted it.
"Without the Facebook thread, how can they possibly validate the authenticity of the photo?"
They couldn't. That's why they tricked him into admitting it was his post without his lawyer present – as mentioned in the article.
@richardLB Actually, there are quite a few states that are far more backward than Texas. Ever been to Louisiana, Alabama, Mississippi, Florida, Georgia, North Carolina, Virginia, Kansas, Tennessee, Kentucky, Iowa? Any of those places makes Texas look like an advanced civilization, though I do agree with your sentiments about Texas being all too happy to support the commercial prison industry and the political aspirations of Neanderthal prosecutors and cops that give birth to that industry.
The introverted nerdy white male has always been the bogeyman. Culture has always ostracized and vilified them in some form or another. Profiling someone in a general sense and then acting upon that profile it just wrong. We as a culture are supposed to be smart enough to look past the profile and at the person in front of us before determining guilt or innocence.
Just because someone is smart and introverted doesn't make them dangerous. The moron who caused the Sandy Hook incident didn't fit that profile yet look at what he did.
I'd even go so far to say that the dumb ones are more dangerous.
@crowlymathew In jail? for speech? ever heard about the piece called 1st amendment?
@crowlymathew dallas county will hire you on the spot
@crowlymathew Which is why you are not a judge.
It's not really imprecise. I happened to find the Texas statute regarding "Terroristic Threats", and it's very precise, but I'm having a hard time believing that whoever decided to prosecute this kid had actually read this. It's just as clear as mud that this doesn't apply.
(a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to any person or property with intent to:
@dfwenigma @nonojoeyno Protection instead of abuse of power, would have been too put him into a mental institution for the obvious therapy he needs. Not a jail to be raped, and probably come out more resentful against society than he was to begin with. Way to be naive. But hey all the power words, and overly analytical droning on really made you sound intelligent so props!
Did you even read the article in its entirety? If so, you're doing your "several degrees in psychology" a grave injustice.
Here's some copy-paste for you...
"He's clearly depressed..." - "In January 2011 he wrote, "Noone likes me, I have no friends. I'm ugly, I'm annoying. The only good aspect is im smart."
"...he's been bullied, he's an outcast, ..." - "Too smart. Soo smart it borthers people. They think im crazy im not christian another strike against me. Im weird. Noone likes the weird random kid [sic].""
"...he's made threats before and had a restraining order taken out on him..." - "The big red flag is his reference to a temporary restraining order a high school ex-girlfriend obtained against him in October 2011."
"...he has suicidal ideations..." - "In April he wrote, "Suicide. Yea. Im thinking about it, wish I had bigger balls. Id fucking kill my self RIGHT NOW, but no im a pussy I hate my self [sic]." This was followed a day later with "kill self," which drew concern from his mother."
"...he fantasises about being a hero and being loved..." - "...and wrote a zombie-apocalypse story in which he alternately protects "New Austin" from the cannibalistic walking dead and gets laid like a champ..."
The only thing that may be a stretch is the "bipolar" statement. Given the evidence that has been given only by this article, I think that @jaded.maggi is completely within bounds to comment (on this article) his opinions, and that he indeed does (unlike you) know what he's talking about.
And, if you'd read the article you'd know this, the reason for the restraining order was in fact given: "The big red flag is his reference to a temporary restraining order a high school ex-girlfriend obtained against him in October 2011. The ex, who asked not to be named, says that when she told him she wanted to end things after two weeks with him, Carter's behavior scared her. She says he talked about hurting himself — and her. "At first I thought he was just playing," she says. "I blew it off." But then, she says, "He started threatening me, saying that he would kill me. ... I told the school officers, [and] they started watching him really closely. He would say that he would shoot up the school." She also accused him of stalking her."
As well, your claim of "The kid broke no laws" is completely invalid as well. A terroristic threat is defined as a declaration of intent to commit a crime of violence against another with the intent of threatening a person, building, facility, or public or private habitat. I'd say "I think I'ma SHOOT UP A KINDERGARTEN" falls under that definition, wouldn't you?
I highly suggest that before telling somebody they have no idea what they're talking about, you read the entire context that is provided. You make yourself look particularly ignorant when you don't.
Stupid, white, hairless monkeys do the darnedest things,don't they?
Koko the Gorilla knows 350 words--maybe more. The white coons of HP/UP know one:
@chrisirwindavis Exactly. Which is why it's important to NEVER talk to the cops, because they WILL use it against you.
@richardLB If we, as a culture, were really all that intelligent, then we would never have elected dunces like Richard Nixon, Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush or Barack Obama as our Presidents. We are really not all that "cultured" or intelligent. We keep fighting against ourselves and destroying the only environment in which we live. We still practice racism, sexism and class warfare on every front, and then rationalize it by thinking that we are better than some other people.
We SHOULD be smart enough to look beyond profiling, but in reality we are not, and so we continue to do it, institutionally, on a daily basis. This one case is getting a lot of attention, but it happens every day in schools, workplaces, churches, city halls and everywhere else. Until we truly ascend from the present self-deluded cesspool of thinking we are better than we really are nothing will change.
Yes, people need to be aware of what they say (although I, for one, am very glad you are not part of our legal system). Screaming "fire" in a crowded theater, for example. Is a punishable crime because of the dangers and panic it causes. If the Facebook threat was true (they can't even prove that beyond a photo of a screen which may or may not have been altered), there should be some form of punishment.
Yes there was cause for concern.. His confirmed posts can be read as a cry for help. That is worrisome. Was prison the right "help?"
In this case, does the punishment does fit the crime? No. What did Texas just do? Sending someone to jail doesn't make them in to a better person or correct anything.. It is supposed to be a way for a person to "pay their debt to society." What debt did he owe at this point?
It makes one question: Did someone profit off of this (like the scandal in Florida where the judge was getting kickbacks from sending people to the privatized prison system?)
@msbcez @dfwenigma @nonojoeyno Hey your analysis and response is ...well lacking. But that's OK one liners work well - on CNN and especially Fox News - so people are well attuned to your views. Heaven forbid we engage in any kind of discourse. And heaven forbid you actually spend two minutes of time to do what I did - think - and research and then write. I know it's too much work - and it doesn't sound as cute either does it?
NO, I WOULDN'T, YOU MORON, AND HERE'S THE ACTUAL TEXAS STATUTE
(a) A person commits an offense if he threatens to commit any offense involving violence to
any person or property with intent to:
Remember Stanley Marcus and his dumber-than-a-box-of-rocks bit about "Upee", his friend from Mars? I met Stanley Marcus: A heck of a nice man. He had the best smile ever--as did Maya Angelou, although when I met her in the basement (I used to keep "I Know Why The Caged Bird Sings", her wonderful poetry collection behind my desk at the Dallas Public Library and would read one poem a day to get started with a little inspiration), but then of course is the weapons manufacturing industry and the contempt of the South's white supremacist spoiled baby makers.
So sorry they had to go "on manipulate" the way they have.
I will remain happy, but I do hope someone does get hung for what has happened.
To throw in a hypothetical, Simon Gruber in Die Hard with a Vengeance would have been found guilty of making a terroristic threat, even though he never mentioned the specific school the (fake) bomb was located in.
@richardLB in order for the facebook comment to be a threat. it had to be specific, i.e. mention THE school about to be attacked, AND made known to the people in that school, rather than to few complete anonymous strangers across the globe. I don't think that somebody who understands English can take the phrase "sure, I will shoot a school" as a threat.
I hate to break it to you, but they don't have it. At least, they claim not to have it - that Facebook wouldn't turn it over. Which is believable as they probably couldn't get a warrant for it. If they do have it, then they are lying and suppressing potentially exculpatory evidence. And if the feds do get involved in this, it will much more likely be to investigate the police agencies rather than to prosecute this kid over protected speech.
You really should read the article before you try to school someone else.
@richardLB I hate to break it to you people who are ignorant about the technical world, but the legal authorities can most certainly prove exactly where the posts and photos came from - PRECISELY. Every on-line communication comes embedded with all sorts of logistical information, including the originating IP address of the computer from which it was sent, and that IP address can be traced to a specific physical address on a specific street in a specific city and state.
If you think you are anonymous on-line, then you are a complete fool! Spoofing and hacking may fool you, but it will not fool the FBI (or other intelligence agency) very long.
@dfwenigma , You, my not friend, are obviously a paid government employee. When did the young man have his psych eval? He obviously has mental issues but I think help would do more then prison. By your logic everyone that can be seen as any kind of threat should be locked away. Your "research" has nothing to do with this case, it's not even similar and it , in all honesty, makes you look like a scared ignorant idiot. You nor the justice system has the full conversation, plus the fact that he did "LOL, J/K" ... Maybe a police state were people who disagree with the mainstream is perfect for you, but I prefer to live in a FREE country where even if comments are stupid (just look at KKK and white power skin heads, they can and do talk about stuff worse than this kid did and are free) you wont be arrested and imprisoned. If he had specifically said I'm going to X school in X days then that would have been different. His comments were the same as video game trash talk, since that IS where it started ... I guess no one can talk trash anymore for fear the American Nazi machine.