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AggieBradley 04/12/2012 6:07:00 PM
I actually agree! DART light rail is great for collecting people from the suburbs and bringing them into Dallas, but what are they to do once they are there? the Street cars are a great intermodal option for the transit system bridging the gap between light rail and walkability! you can hope on for a few blocks and then hop off when you need to! its easier than having to worry about where to park your car and cheaper too. When I road the TRE last month for the first time It was annoying having to have a car in the first place but, the way Our Dallas Society is so anti-mass transit it was almost a hassle using it. but once I was on it it was a smooth trip to fort worth! I actually talked and ate with my sister while we rode to fort worth instead of worrying about dying on the Tom Landry freeway! lol
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TransitTrouble 07/20/2011 10:16:00 AM
This is the truth that no one wants to admit: we care about mass transit in neighborhoods we want to gentrify, but otherwise we don't want poor people getting around too easily, safely, or cheaply, lest they end up in neighborhoods they don't belong in. If the poor are too shiftless to own and maintain cars, they're not fit to employ anyway. So we keep mass transit underfunded, inconvenient, dirty, and sometimes downright dangerous to use. Street cars are gentrified, busses and light rail are for poor people. Lest, we wouldn't be caught dead on busses. Or so the conservative thinking here in D-Town goes. Let's just keep building more highways until we end up as ugly and dirty as Los Angeles. Lord knows we get more Angelinos here every day. Whatever they're doing in California, we should be doing the exact opposite.
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Craig 07/05/2011 7:44:00 PM
yea becuase street cars and bridges are cool
that will solve EVERYTHING just like it did in Detroit.
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07/04/2011 5:17:00 PM
Old grouch, you're asking the right questions (painful as they may be). Nowhere does anyone dare do a cost/benefit analysis of the endless EPA, FTA and ADA regulations and mandatory "studies" by "consultants". It has become politically incorrect to question the validity of any such regulation, so it's a taboo subject for transit officials as well as so-called journalists such as the author of this article.
Never mind that we could probably rebuild the entire streetcar network in Oak Cliff for the for the cost of this single, short segment.
In my opinion, this project should proceed but we need to have a good explanation of the costs that satisfactory to the sponsors of this project. That is, you and me.
Instead of a thorough, comprehensive analysis we get reguritated, worn out oil/auto/highway lobbyist propaganda seasoned with racism to make us believe the project is utterly hopeless.
Meanwhile, we continue building money-losing freeways literally driving the state into financial ruin - $27 Billion and counting with no way to pay for it - requiring more debt to our decendants, and more cuts into our education system:
http://www.mysanantonio.com/default/article/Lege-is-remiss-on-highway-funding-1194456.php
http://blog.mysanantonio.com/texas-politics/2011/04/hat-trick-senators-looking-at-more-debt-for-roads/
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07/04/2011 4:56:00 PM
Dallasmay, We can't tell the difference between a cable car and a streetcar. HELP!
..
Anyway, battery-powered streetcars have been around for about 100 years. This is nothing "new" or "innovative":
http://www.american-rails.com/florida-interurbans.html
Thousands of streetcars and electric locomotives have been built over the years with the capability to operate on batteries for short distances where overhead wires or catenary do not exist.
I'm still not convinced these streetcars need to cost $3M per set - still waiting for details of such a justification.
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Transit Jeff 07/04/2011 5:35:00 AM
There isn't a city bus line in this country that doesn't need taxpayer subsidies either, Old Grouch. It's a fallacy to think that any public transit system will pay for itself. Public transit provides a service to the public, just like police and fire departments, streets departments, schools, etc. They don't pay for themselves either. And they require huge public subsidies. I hear no hue and cry that those services must pay for themselves !! So why must public transit be singled out to pay for itself?
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old grouch 07/04/2011 5:11:00 AM
There isn't a light rail or trolley line in this country that doesn't need taxpayer subsidies to stay afloat. So tell me what urgent transportation need this line will serve, that deserves my money?
BTW, I love rail transit. I used to live on the Green Line in Boston, and used it all the time. That line is over a century old, and was paid for ages ago. New lines have lunatic regulations imposed by a gang of DOT twits in Boulder and DC that jack up the price with no measurable benefit. Amazing, how once railroads and trolley lines moved a major portion of the population around with none of the current technologies, with about the same level of accidents and fatalities a century ago(considering the far smaller number of people using them now) as we have now.
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Big Al 07/02/2011 5:07:00 AM
I ride street cars and light rail as I travel around the world. In 2010 rode on Toronto street cars that Dallas will buy as their expansion.
Street cars and light rail are great options for commuters and tourists. Schedules are easy and predictable, not like buses. Easy to hop on and off. In Toronto and other places my girl friend & I bought day passes. Jumped out whenever we saw a cafe, shop, attraction that caught our eye.
In addition McKinney Avenue Trolley is FREE.
Sure light rail is grand. Expenses are grand as well. Watching DART expand to Carrolton, Rockwall, DFW is fun, but takes forever.
Expect Trolley will be less expensive and take less time because it uses existing roads.
Your article has amusing jokes, but fact is DFW needs more public transit NOW. Trolleys are part of that mix of options.
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06/29/2011 11:13:00 PM
binhT, one of the reasons not any old cable car will do is because on the entire length of the bridge, the cable car will have to run without cable. This is why they're looking at a Japanese hybrid cable car with backup batteries.
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/transportation/20110425-dallas-city-council-nears-funding-target-for-streetcar-plan.ece?action=reregister
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06/29/2011 8:26:00 PM
Dallasmay, now we're talking. Yes, I'm almost totally ignorant (as is the author and most of the other commenters here).
But why do we need to purchase a fleet of modern streetcars at $3 million each when the Seashore has several Dallas double-ended PCCs available for $90K-$100K each and Gomaco can build streetcars from scratch for $800K or less?
Assuming three cars are needed, that's a savings $6 or $7 million right off the bat.
Now you've spouted off several reasons why so much money is needed. Please provide a little more details of each. Why is my money needed to protect the 100 year old bridge? How will it be spent? Where exactly are these utilities and street upgrades? Have you received competitive quotes? Please post them for us to see.
Sorry if these questions make you uncomfortable, but you need to treat this (as well as other government funding) as if it came from your life savings. You should get what you really need - and no more. Every dollar will need to be justified.
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06/29/2011 8:19:00 PM
Good. Cut highway funding and divert funds into schools. Wait - we're already doing that. How's it working?
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06/29/2011 1:55:00 PM
How bout spending the money on teachers, instead?
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06/29/2011 2:39:00 AM
That $20M is not spread evenly over the entire line. This line has some very particular problems associated with it. The biggest problem is that a very large length of the route is traveling over a 100+ year old bridge -that is listed on the national list of protected historic structures- and is crossing a river that serves a very large wetland area. That's two MAJOR protections that have to be taken into account right there. PLUS, many of the streets that are along the alignment are 50+ years old themselves as well. You can't just glue tracks on 50+ year old asphalt. Not if you want any kind of reasonable life span for the route. They will also need to be replaced and restored in the process. Further, the utilities are also 50+ years old. They also need to be replaced. Further, we have learned a lot about traffic in the last 50 years, so all of the roads will need to be upgraded and that might require new retaining structures and possibly even ROW acquisition.
If this was as simple as cutting into recently laid asphalt and placing track into straight road, then yeah, we could do it for $1m per mile. But you really shouldn't pop-off your head about things that you obviously know absolutely nothing whatsoever about.
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cp 06/29/2011 1:32:00 AM
You idiot, there was no such thing as horse-drawn "buses", they were called coaches back then and they always made ruts and got stuck in the ruts. A quick study in very rudimentary physics led us to discover that if somehow we could affix the wheel to something to which would help guide it through the ruts and mud, something similar to what those "iron horses" were doing produced the first horse-drawn carriages affixed to rail. Those were the first streetcars. It had nothing whatsoever to do with "bumpy rides".
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06/29/2011 12:38:00 AM
This is just the start of what will be a system that gets you all around the city someday. The draw of streetcars is undeniable and that is what this city really needs PEOPLE LIVING IN IT. we moved here from san francisco when i was young and my mom always says how ugly dallas is how it has nothing to it and its true it was designed for efficiency and nothing else. Every time someone wants to do something cool like build a bridge or do a streetcar system every one throws a hissy fit IM SO SICK OF IT. stupid dallasites your city will always be an ugly slab of concrete unless you do some aesthetically pleasing stuff to it.
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BTS 06/29/2011 12:09:00 AM
Also which most people don't know is that Light Rail trains are coasting most of the time.
Kinetic energy plays a big part in their efficiency beside minimum rolling resistance. To carry what a three car train carries you would have to have at a minimum of 10 buses.
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06/28/2011 11:21:00 PM
It was a great idea unique to Dallas and you knew it was free when you saw it. To me the fake trolleys in Arlington and Fort Worth are the most nausiatingly cliche.
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06/28/2011 11:17:00 PM
No one is asking the right question:
Why was Kenosha, WI able to construct a streetcar line for less than $3 Million per mile while this project costs $20 Million per mile?
Some answers are obvious, but imagine how much more service we could have at a much lower cost to the taxpayer. The same questions must also to apply to highways and other transportation projects.
I've heard we can eliminate nearly half of the nation's deficit by eliminating waste while keeping existing projects intact.
As taxpayers, we deserve a breakdown of the costs and allowed to recommend suggestions for cost savings.
But no one is willing to negotiate lower costs on behalf of the taxpayer. The only debate seems to be "Streetcar Yes" or "Streetcar No".
I believe this project should proceed, but at half the cost. How about that?
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06/28/2011 11:05:00 PM
I don't remember gettting to vote for the $450,000,000.00 to widen a few miles of I-35E. Were you complaining about that?
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Jeff 06/28/2011 6:56:00 PM
I miss Hop A Bus. A bus painted like a big pink bunny. Unfortunately that was way to kitchy for Dallas.
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06/28/2011 4:29:00 PM
I miss the days when I was little and downtown had a life. It wasn't all businesses, but had the west end where you could go to a cool mall, see street performers, local artists, etc.
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Loki Laufeyson 06/28/2011 1:49:00 PM
Gotta love DART. They'll scrap popular bus routes in favor of "niche" transit modes. DART has killed Route 519 which served residents on both sides of White Rock Lake, forcing folks to travel to downtown just to get from Lake Highlands to Lakewood or Mockingbird Station, and the Route 466 to White Rock Rail Station, leaving folks in the Casa Linda area with no viable bus route to the "neighborhood rail station". Now, to get to the rail station, we have to eithre drive, or take 2 buses to make a 3 mile trip. Or, we can call DART On-Call and hope that they have a seat for us sometime during the day... and pay a premium for the privilege. Oh, but we have direct service via the 467 down to Lake June Station so we can ride the NEW GREEN LINE. Woopie. But Dallas has STREET CARS, yeah buddy. DART... going nowhere, and getting there quickly.
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007dws 06/28/2011 11:58:00 AM
Why should taxpayes pay for your nostalgia? I'm sure the Pony Express used to gallop up behind the horse drawn ice carts to......
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007dws 06/28/2011 11:49:00 AM
Scrap the street cars.....Who authorizes this crap? I don't remember voting for this. How many teachers will 40 million pay for?
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06/27/2011 10:46:00 PM
He's a good reporter, Dale. I agree with you, though, that there's a great deal of potential and a track record of success for streetcars that he fails to appreciate fully.
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Jerry 06/27/2011 5:55:00 PM
Angela Hunt hunt can't get m.dart.org on her iPhone and figure out where the bus is going? I think it has more to do with who the other riders are.
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Tony 06/27/2011 2:06:00 PM
@dB "Jim, for you, uptown may be an “entertainment district”. For me, it's my home"
Bravo, I couldn't agree more. Uptown is an actual neighborhood, full of Dallas residents... and that's where Dallas fails by continually trying to create tourist traps (West End), and phony destinations (Victory). Spending huge dollars on bridges, hotels, and trolleys to to hospitals don't revitalize anything. You want downtown to come back...focus on people that live in Dallas. If you get locals down there, visitors to the city will follow.
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Donbooyack 06/27/2011 5:36:00 AM
hellllllllllllllll FIX ALL THEM BUNK ASS STREETS Withat $$ & MOre pedi cabs.
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Donbooyack 06/27/2011 4:45:00 AM
Cyclist typing ARregla laS Putas calles first I Say DayuMm......
Cheers
Alexander Moreno :D
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db 06/26/2011 8:43:00 PM
Jim, for you, uptown may be an “entertainment district”. For me, it's my home and I can walk to almost everything I need - cleaners, grocery, voting, dining, museums, symphony, theater, library, shopping and of course the trolley which I do not view as a “tourist attraction” at all, but as a means to get to work, a starting and ending point for airport trips (DFW – trolley, walk, 2 trains, 2 buses; DAL – trolley, walk, train, bus), and home from restaurants / pubs when my feet don’t carry me so well. My cars go unused for weeks at a time. Why does it always need to be about the "destination" in this town and not about the "journey". And I also love the sound of the trolley in my neighborhood – it is one of those things that makes it home. And Jim; from you of all people – I’m befuddled.
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06/26/2011 7:57:00 PM
To answer your first question, Charles, I advocate going back to the budget surpluses we had under Clinton. The problem wasn't just caused by the increased spending during the Bush years, although Bush did increase spending dramatically for homeland security, Medicare Part D, wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and other initiatives he failed to fund. The problem resulted because Bush didn't increase taxes as much as he increased spending, and in fact decreased them. The two economic recessions that occurred during his tenure certainly didn't help matters.
"...a streetcar project would never be attempted by a private developer because there is no profit to be made in such a self indulgent project. That is precisely why the project should never be built."
Only one problem here: The successful McKinney Avenue Transit Authority isn't a government program. It describes itself on its Facebook page as "a private non-profit organization run by a dedicated staff of volunteers."
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Dale Harwood 06/26/2011 7:49:00 PM
Tell me then. Tell me why he's not a lying son-of-a-bitch. I'm all ears.
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Corsairii 06/26/2011 7:21:00 PM
If you knew anything at all about Jim Shutze, you would not accuse him of being in cahoots with any lobbyist - especially an oil/auto/highway type lobbyist.
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06/26/2011 6:39:00 PM
The characterizations made of San Francisco's F-line by Mr. Walker are simply dead wrong, in almost all respects. As the non-profit group supporting the transit agency that runs the F-line (www.streetcar.org), we look at its operation very closely. The F-line carries more than twice the number of riders as the bus it replaced, for the simple reason that people find it more instantly identifiable than the generic bus, and smoother to ride. No one I know has ever claimed it was faster than the bus on the same route, and indeed, the running times are the same. The lane it operates in is irrelevant, the notion that "double parking" held up the buses on Market Street is laughable because there is NO parking allowed on Market and the traffic flow in each lane is the same. He is also dead wrong when he says the streetcar runs "far less frequently" than the bus did on that route. The streetcar started out with the exact same frequencies as the bus, but was soon made MORE frequent because of rider demand. The transit agency is going to make it even more frequent as soon as more streetcars finish restoration (2 of 16 additional cars are here now). He's trying to knock down streetcars with arguments that no one is making, at least not in San Francisco, where the F-line has become, in just over a decade, the most successful traditional streetcar line in America. We don't say they're "faster or more reliable than buses.' We DO say they're more successful, for the simple reason that people WANT to ride them instead of buses, taxis, and in many cases private automobiles.
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Dale Harwood 06/26/2011 6:24:00 PM
So what Jim Schutze and the oil/auto/highway lobbyist funded Cascade Institute are saying is that we should all disconnect our houses from the electric grid and RUN diesel generators in our back yards.
It's funny how some people - including the author - swallow this auto/oil-lobbyist finded garbage hook, line, and sinker.
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Dale Harwood 06/26/2011 6:23:00 PM
Let's take this little gem: "Buses came out substantially cleaner than light rail in basic pollution, and they beat the socks off light rail in energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions."
--
So what Jim Schutze and the oil/auto/highway lobbyist funded Cascade Institute are saying is that we should all disconnect our houses from the electric grid and off diesel generators in our back yards.
It's funny how some people - including the author - swallow this auto/oil-lobbyist finded garbage hook, line, and sinker.
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trannyntraining 06/26/2011 5:57:00 PM
Well there you go! My fears are now assuaged...
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06/26/2011 5:31:00 PM
At least it's only $40 million and not $2 billion like that dumbass Trinity floodplain tollroad.
To have any chance for success streetcars must run so frequently (less than every five minutes) that users feel no need for a schedule, because they know that another one will be along within a couple minutes. 15 minute headway is death for a trolley.
By the way, very nice photo mashups!
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06/26/2011 4:44:00 PM
I am glad you called him rude rather than racist. The reason being the possibility that he is black. Everyone knows that calling a black person racist is the height of racism. Only white folks can be racists. For blacks, and Mexicans like myself, racism is a genetic impossibility. *sarcasm*
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06/26/2011 4:38:00 PM
"The right has spent the past three decades underfunding government..." Really Ken? Really? The government is spending more money than it ever has in history. The problem is Ken, that no matter how high taxes are and how high deficits are, the left will always cry that government programs are underfunded. So Ken, why don't you tell us all what the proper funding levels are? Give us a number Ken. And when your number is reached and the program doesn't work, will you then cry again the problem is underfunding? That IS the pat answer to for the reason behind all the failed leftist programs meant to solve all problems for all people isn't it?
Free market types "supportive of 100% government owned and funded roads...." How about the fact that the U. S. Constitution, Article 1 Section 8 actually provides for the creation of post offices and post roads?
To be honest, Ken, I am a free market type. Would that all roads were privately owned, maintained, and operated. The same for railroads and cute little streetcars.
The fact is, unless it is government run, the left isn't interested in roads, rail, or anything else free enterprise up to and including profits. Let a private developer try and build and run that little 2 mile section of track for the streetcar and there would be lawsuits from all kinds of left leaning groups trying to stop it. From groups screaming about environmental impact to groups whining aabout how the developer should allow the poor to ride free, they would all be there trying to stop it.
Fact of the matter is, such a streetcar project would never be attempted by a private developer because there is no profit to be made in such a self indulgent project. That is precisely why the project should never be built. It will always be in the red, and whoever oversees the little streetcar that shouldn't, will forever be screaming how the line is underfunded.
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06/26/2011 11:49:00 AM
A new streetcar (light rail) line right in the middle of the street is more of an amusement ride than mass transit.
Sometimes a portion of street running (such as in Baltimore) is unavoidable but running slowly in traffic and waiting at traffic lights is not going to attract commuters.
Incidentally, streetcars (running on rails) might never have been invented had smooth paved roads been available back in the mid 1800's. Buses (horse drawn back then) came before streetcars but the horsepower needed to of pull the loaded bus over bumpy roads together with the uncomfortable bumpy ride quality quickly led to an improved (back then) alternative, the streetcar.
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06/26/2011 1:18:00 AM
Actually I have seen many blacks and mexicans ride the trolley. Not sure where you get your info. I think it is very rude to just assume only whites ride this type of transportation.
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Lynnpruss 06/25/2011 3:56:00 PM
You are an ignorant piece of $#!+...dirt, sorry. Urban garbage. We have one in our city and everyone loves to ride it. Everyone!!!
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06/24/2011 10:46:00 PM
"Buses came out substantially cleaner than light rail in basic pollution, and they beat the socks off light rail in energy consumption and greenhouse gas emissions."
The problem here is it assumes a dirty coal power grid. But there is no pollution whatsoever when the power comes from renewable sources. The grid continues to get cleaner over time.
"...the Cascade Policy Institute, a free-market think tank in Portland, claims that resident Portlanders never use their own city's streetcars, even though the Portland streetcars are immensely popular with visitors."
It's ironic that these "free-market" types are so supportive of the 100% government owned and funded roads that wiped out our private enterprise passenger railroads and streetcar lines. It would be interesting to check their sources of funding. You're an investigative reporter, Schutze. How about it?
"I'm not stopping every few minutes with pre-recorded announcements in two different languages telling me that, 'The doors are opening, the doors are closing.' "
In fact, you are. Not only do buses stop frequently, but they contain similar announcements. This is required by the Americans with Disabilities Act. Not everyone has sight, remember?
"He concedes that there are solid reasons to consider a streetcar system based on the positive effect it may have on surrounding real estate development."
Look at Uptown. The McKinney Avenue Streetcar is a very important component in this.
"In the golden age of streetcars, from 1880 to 1945, developers built their own streetcar lines to extend beyond settled city limits out into the raw land they intended to develop."
Fort Worth promised a streetcar to lure Texas Christian University from Waco.
"Dallas Assistant City Manager A.C. Gonzalez, who oversees the streetcar effort here, says there is an even more important point to be made about government money for streetcars. "Government doesn't have any money," he says."
The right has spent the past three decades underfunding government to create massive deficits, so they could then argue against public services by claiming the government is broke. In fact, the government can afford anything the deems worth funding, and is willing to pay taxes to support.
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Texas Twister 06/24/2011 5:22:00 PM
Once again, a well-researched and in-depth article by Jim Schutze. Lots to ponder... I love trains, but I know buses are more efficient and should be a huge part of transportation expansion. The Derelict is right: more passenger rail is simply white appeasement. We've already got a pretty good street system in place, so putting more bus routes throughout Dallas, that connect with the systems in Fort Worth, and Denton, is just smart and cost-efficient. And, if counties like Ellis, Kaufman, and Collin (they bought into DART in Plano) begin a bus system, too, then the whole region would be interconnected based on the reason why the region grew in the first place: roads.
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The Derelict 06/24/2011 4:02:00 PM
the streetcar is really only for white people to feel urban and not have to sit next to blacks or mexicans on the fugly foul odor producing yellow bus. no mexican or black especially is going to ride that thing. But hey, they look real neat, like an "urban decoration" says Ms. Schweitzer so go for it, you're going to do it anyway.
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06/24/2011 3:12:00 PM
I am pretty much Pro-Streetcar, similar to what you see in Portland and Toronto. But, to just run a small "feeder line" between Reunion and Methodist sounds like a waste of money. If we're going to actually kick off a line, you need it to roll from a place people WANT to go, like Bishop Arts or FW Ave, places where it can boost both residential and commercial business.
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Tony 06/24/2011 12:53:00 PM
Another fuck up for Dallas...this streetcar is going from Reunion to Methodist Hospital??!!! If you start a streetcar, for goodness sake, start it where people will actually use it!! If you don't, you have to ask if it's really worth it. Unless you have the money to take it to Bishop Arts, you know, a part of town that's actually a destination, why start it at all? Hell, wouldn't it be smarter to try to continue the Uptown Trolley down Mckinney to Knox, or continue it through downtown? I mean there's rarely much traffic on the viaduct between downtown and Methodist. Why would people ride a trolley there? Just stupid!!!! I predict this thing will be dead almost all the time.
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Guest 06/24/2011 12:48:00 PM
http://www.jokeindex.com/joke.asp?Joke=3863
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Noah Jeppson 06/24/2011 2:17:00 AM
I believe modern buses can be just as effective as streetcars. Upgrading DART's bus system (with nicer boarding areas, arrival signs, spider maps, low-floor /silent vehicles, dedicated transit lanes) might actually be a better use of money. But there's a huge stigma around buses in Dallas and it's unlikely to change anytime soon. As long as transit officials consider a sign planted in a dirty median a "bus stop", it will only attract the most desperate of riders.
Streetcars, however, will force transit and city leaders to re-examine the entire streetscape. Wider sidewalks will need to be built and streets will need to be converted back to two-way operation, re-establishing an urban environment centered around pedestrians instead of autos.
There is a great need to connect our various districts with reliable, convenient transportation. If this line to Oak Cliff is the "starter project" for a system much larger, I'm all for it. I'm excited that transit leaders are now focused on solutions for residents WITHIN Dallas' urban areas vs. DART's focus of getting people to/from the suburbs.
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Noah Jeppson 06/24/2011 1:48:00 AM
The photo of Elm Street in the paper and online version is incorrectly captioned. The modern half on the left is looking West from the Majestic Theatre/Titche-Goettinger Building. The historic photo on the right is looking East from near Akard Street (the building labeled "Titche-Goettinger" is the Wilson Building). So both "sides" of the street are the same and it's an incorrect montage. Here's a more accurate montage of the street (but without streetcar): http://www.flickr.com/photos/dfwcre8tive/4935615422/in/photostream
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06/23/2011 11:16:00 PM
A Portlander's perspective -
1) John Charles is the worst person to quote about anything transit related. If he had his way, there wouldn't be ANY public transportation of ANY type! His right-wing "think tank" is funded by the Cato institute.
2) Portland Streetcar is very successful, and not just for tourists. Just take a look in the cars and you'll see! Instead of John Charles, maybe you should have interviewed someone who actually works or lives downtown.
3) It is correct that Portland Streetcar is mostly development tool. Why didn't developers pay for it? Well they did - it was paid for with an urban renewal district (read property taxation tricks) and federal funds. Many of the stops/streetcars are also sponsored by businesses.
4) Portland Streetcar is not intended to get you to/from downtown in a hurry. It's a circulator, intended to essentially supplement walking. It's for people living in the downtown condos to go 12 blocks to get to work, or head 4 blocks to the grocery store, or maybe go from work to get a bite for lunch, etc.
Some of the development of the pearl district would have occurred without the streetcar, but many of those huge condo towers were built under the condition that the streetcar would be put in place. This sort of development would never have happened with an easily-discontinued/rerouted bus line that people wouldn't ride due to the rubber wheels.
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Jay 06/23/2011 10:21:00 PM
Isn't this true for just about...everything?
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Jay 06/23/2011 10:18:00 PM
Also majority of funds are coming from the Feds. Can you read? Have you been paying attention AT ALL? If not why are you commenting...?
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Mrphlegm 06/23/2011 10:14:00 PM
" In this world there are three sizes of rail transit. The big kind is called heavy rail: trains running on separate tracks from city to city pulled or pushed by diesel engines."
wut? diesel engines? on heavy rail? dude, you didn't research this did you? Heavy rail is also powered by ELECTRIC engines. please edumucate yourself and google ACELA, TGV, or Shinkansen, Diesel? dude, you might as well have said that heavy rail is pulled or pushed by coal or wood burning steam engines.
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Lakewoodhobo 06/23/2011 8:15:00 PM
Reminds me of when FOX News starts a story with "Some people think...."
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Lakewoodhobo 06/23/2011 8:12:00 PM
Don't call someone an idiot when you can't figure out the proper use of punctuation.
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Guest 06/23/2011 6:27:00 PM
Brought to you by the same people who want to spend $140m on bike lanes. I think OC needs to secede and pay for this stuff themselves through abatements.
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Marc 06/23/2011 6:00:00 PM
The tram (streetcar) system in Berlin is awesome! The M-line belongs in a historical amusement park. Simple minds are destroying America's innovative spirit.
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Common Sense 06/23/2011 5:33:00 PM
$40 million is roughly 1000 teachers for one year at a 40 thousand dollar salary. Or 500 teachers and 250 police officers and 250 firefighters at the same salary. Walk!
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Juan Valdez 06/23/2011 4:23:00 PM
I HATE THE MLINE STREETCAR.
Ok I had to get that out of my chest.
First, I had to put up with several years of street destruction that actually damaged my car. Second, they are slow and innefficient. I cant count the times I have been waiting for that thing and it never comes. Just yesterday I had some out of town visitors including a kid...and the effin thing never stopped by.
Im all for urbanism, and in theory they seem ok. But in reality they are not!! Its a waste of money we dont need. At least not the old streetcars like the MLine. Some things are meant to never come back...like bell bottoms, skinny jeans and perms.
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06/23/2011 3:04:00 PM
1. I think Dallas, in some ways is doing things right. You use the rail lines (light and heavy) to travel long distance and avoid traffic congestion on roadways. You use buses to travel shorter distances.
2. I have to agree with Hunt. Dallas bus routes are confusing (but you can figure them out, if you take the time). To many of them meander all over the place. But, that is partially cuased by the haphazard layout of our roads. Many places have roads that for a grid system. In the Dallas area, they curve and wander all over the map and just take odd angles. Also, the later in the day it is, the more likely the bus is going to be late. At 7PM, I have had my bus arrive over an hour and a half late.
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Ggiddens1969 06/23/2011 2:59:00 PM
Finally, another view on this goofy waste of money... other than the view of its champion, Angela "Can't we just be, um, like, Portland or something?" Hunt.
Speaking of which: Are you shitting me, Hunt?!?! You can't figure out where the hell the bus is going?? You with the degrees (one from Rice) can't do what my 82 year old grandmother with "only" a high school education can. You showed your true colors, jerk.
DISD is firing good teachers, but fuckin' a, we MUST HAVE A TROLLEY... it's just so darn KEWL! Piss off.
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Titus Groan 06/23/2011 2:02:00 PM
Light rail, heavy rail, streetcars, whatever - none of this will be taken seriously by the general commuting public until gas prices make suburban living as costly as urban living. America is a car culture. That's just the way it is.
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Anila 06/23/2011 1:51:00 PM
I charge you to find any expert who can prove that buses are more green than streetcars!
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Fahrenheit 450 06/23/2011 12:58:00 PM
Lisa Schweitzer, a professor of environmental justice and sustainable transportation at the University of Southern California, dismisses streetcars as "urban decoration ... "For all of us who actually have to work for a living and use public transit to get to work," she says, "the attitude is that we should go jump in the lake."
Yeah, won't someone think of the poor professors at USC? Seriously, Lisa, make your point without pretending that you're some poor Joe Lunchpail, while the streetcar enthusiasts are apparently some independently wealthy layabouts, dreaming of "urban decoration" whilst lolling about their pleasure pits.
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JOHNHOLES13 06/23/2011 12:23:00 PM
IDIOTS IN DALLAS WHY ARE WE DOING THIS WHEN WE HAVE A BUDGET CRISIS HERE IN DALLAS I LIVE HERE IT MAKES NO SENSE!
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06/23/2011 11:18:00 AM
I rode DART buses for years when I lived in Richardson and worked in downtown. I actually had a bus line that went from just outside my apartment complex to the building where I worked. One advantage of the bus was that it took side streets - a ride always took 45 minutes. If I drove, sometime Central took fifteen minutes, sometimes it took 90.
When I moved to Plano, I had to drive to the Park and Ride to get on a bus that took me to work. Once you've fought your way from Spring Creek to Park(er?) on Central, why exit? You might as well keep going. That's when I stopped riding DART.
Now that I'm back in Dallas, I'm home-officed, so public transport doesn't even come up. If I'm going somewhere, I just drive. The only exception is the AAC where it is much easier to take DART rail. The buses don't go where I want to go.
I would ride DART rail to work. I would even ride a bus. It's just Dallas' system is designed to get people to downtown, not to where they work. My non-home office is on Diplomat off Stemmons, north of LBJ. I live by White Rock. I think I can drive to White Rock Station, take the train downtown, switch lines and get close to the office, but it would be a long journey. (Google Maps says an hour and 48 minutes using buses and trains.) However, that may still be better than the horrors of LBJ Express, although as mentioned, you go when they go. If you're running late, you're going to be a lot later on the other side.
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06/23/2011 10:28:00 AM
It all works great until there's a power outage, then all those streetcars are dead in their tracks!
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Guest 06/23/2011 9:43:00 AM
http://www.ohs.org/education/oregonhistory/learning_center/dspResource.cfm?resource_ID=000BC26B-EE5A-1E47-AE5A80B05272FE9F
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Transit Jeff 06/23/2011 8:12:00 AM
Who are these 'experts' that say, 'modern street cars are no better at carrying people around than other methods {modes}, maybe a little worse" !! Who pays these 'experts'? This couldn't be farther from the truth. I could write pages stating why this statement is so absurd.
Street cars never pay for themselves? Neither do buses !!
Street cars are less green than buses? What idiot thinks that? Not even worth my time to respond to that one.
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06/23/2011 5:50:00 AM
What a monumental waste of tax payer money. A line from Reunion to Methodist? Tell me who is going to ride that line? Are there that many people who are downtown and need to get to the hospital? Oh, it's for the residents like me (I live less than a block from Methodist)? Why do I want to go to the Reunion area again? West End, maybe. Uptown, probably. Reunion, nope. No interest.
I think the idea is to take the trolly up to Union Station and catch a bus. But, then again, I can already catch a bus in front of Methodist, so why do I need a trolley? Oh yeah, because the "smart" people (who decry fancy bridges, toll roads, and city-owned hotels) want one ... just because ... it's cool ... you know ... and stuff.
Pfft.
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trannyntraining 06/23/2011 4:11:00 AM
So why is NYC cool,then? They have them, black and brown lower classes, you speak of. There are many other reasons for Portland's perceived "cool factor", but i'm going to stick with the topic of streetcars, instead. Dallas' transit needs to work on rail connections for the east and west(north and south is looking okay already) and overhaul the bus system, so it will be easier to make connections and have more straight shots(less 2hr trips for a 15min car ride). The Streetcars seem superfluous and the money better spent on those things I pointed out in the sentence before, but we know Dallas likes "shiny things" over "things of real substance"...so Ding, Ding, Ding goes the trolley!
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Guest 06/23/2011 3:53:00 AM
I don't have a problem with the idea of riding a bus, but it truly is a baffling nightmare just to figure out what to do.
There was a DART bus stop at the corner where my previous apartment was (in Plano). I saw the sign there, but there's no information as to how I go about riding the bus, getting a ticket or even when the bus might show up at that spot. There wasn't even a bench to sit on while I waited. Just a pole with a sign listing some numbers.
Even going to the DART website now doesn't really make it easier. Just tonight, I tried to use the trip planner just to see what it would spit out. I put that Plano bus stop as the starting point and the DART Rail Station at Parker Road as the end point. And I picked 10am just because that's about as early as I ever get up.
So, the bus shows up at that stop (Preston Rd and Park in Plano) at 10:09am. And then it winds its way up Preston up to Legacy and then turns west and heads out past the Tollway before going back down to Spring Creek and Coit and Parker Rd at Custer and, finally, to the Parker Rd. Rail Station.
Estimated trip time according to DART? 1 hr and 3 minutes.
My estimated time by car at that time of day? Maybe 15 minutes (Google maps says 14 minutes).
But even if I had no other choice than to go 45 minutes out of my way, it's still a bit of a pain to ride that bus. I have to have exact change (thankfully the Rail stations take debit and credit cards now. It wasn't that long ago that it was cash only, but even then it wasn't exact change), and I can't buy a ticket at the bus stop while I wait, so, presumably, if there were a lot of people boarding at any given stop, that would slow down the transit time.
Sure, I can get a pass, but not at the bus stop (though I think I can buy a day pass on the bus itself). I can't even sit down while waiting for the bus to come.
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JimS 06/23/2011 3:10:00 AM
Well, to be fair to Southern Dallas politcians, in addition to street namings they also have to worry about people living in abject poverty.
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06/23/2011 12:49:00 AM
"Don't let anyone tell you that the streetcar made Portland a great livable city. Portland is a great livable city because of decades of hard work in comprehensive planning and consensus building, leading to many different actions, and many different technologies that all served the goals that people really shared. The streetcar is just one such technology. It is a result, not a cause, of Portland's success."
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Portland also is seen as a "cool", "great livable city" because - much unlike Dallas -- it is one of the whitest cities in America. Lacking an impoverished black and brown lower class, it doesn't have to worry too much about crime, "bad schools," city council members who think primarily of ethnocentrism vs. the common good, etc. etc.
Streetcars, green living, etc., are overwhelmingly Stuff White People Like. Show me a South Dallas political leader who cares half as much about sustainable bicyclability as about renaming some street for some ethnic hero, and I'll show you a figment of the multicultural imagination.
Oregonian: In a Changing World, Portland Remains Overwhelmingly White
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf/2009/01/in_a_changing_world_portland_r.html
Aaron Renn, Newgeography: "The White City"
http://www.newgeography.com/content/001110-the-white-city
http://www.halfsigma.com/2009/05/the-most-emailed-ny-times-story-of-the-day-some-guy-gushing-over-how-great-portland-oregon-is-he-conveniently-leaves-out.html